SHOW NOTES
Listen to Julie’s first Smart Talks episode, season 1 episode 14.
Read Julie’s blog.
Follow Julie on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
Follow the Elizabeth Smart Foundation on Instagram and Facebook.
Chat 24/7 with the National Sexual Assault Hotline.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Elizabeth: You are listening to Smart Talks with the Elizabeth Smart Foundation.
[00:00:10] I'm your host, Elizabeth Smart. Smart Talks provides survivors and supporters with tools for healing, a sense of community, and empowerment so we can all heal and move forward together.
[00:00:22] Hello, and welcome back to Smart Talks by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I am your host, Elizabeth, and today we have a return guest from one of our previous seasons. We have Julie Whitehead back. And if you don't, if you missed our earlier episode, you should definitely go back and listen to it. But to give you the brief, the briefest of bios of Julie.
[00:00:44] She's incredible. Julie is a survivor of 31 years of abuse, including child sexual abuse, domestic violence and sex trafficking. She was raised in Bountiful, Utah. The cycle of abuse began for Julie at the age of four, continuing through her early teens and into her first marriage. Now, Julie has moved on in her life and she is successful and she's happily married and she has a family and she's beautiful and wonderful and amazing.
[00:01:17] And I'm really excited to have you back. How has your life been the last few years?
[00:01:24] Julie: Well, it's been interesting. It's not something that I would've ever expected it to be, it looks a lot different than I might have expected it and better and worse in both ways. Better in the fact that I'm back home in Utah, which I didn't think that I would ever be after the abuse that I suffered.
[00:01:43] Utah just held so many triggers and, I can't drive by the freeway without seeing my trafficker's home or the place where he first raped me or my childhood home where some abuse took place or my, where I lived with my first husband. So it is just, it's everywhere around me. And I thought I'll never be able to live here again.
[00:02:05] There's just too many ghosts, too many triggers. And so when I was in Boston seeking treatment, I felt like I don't have anywhere to call home. I don't have anywhere to go after this. I may just have to live on the east coast forever. Like by myself. I just couldn't imagine a way that it would work, but thankfully, and a lot in part to the Malouf Foundation for doing the work that they're doing, encouraged me to come home and realize that people are in this fight.
[00:02:33] They're standing behind me. And so I was able to come home. So that's probably the biggest thing. The biggest change.
[00:02:39] Elizabeth: I mean, that's a huge change. For a place that holds so many hard memories. In, over the years, I mean, I've taken people back to where I was held captive and it's very difficult to get to.
[00:02:52] It's not just like, oh, we're just driving down there. There it is. It's very difficult. You're not just gonna accidentally stumble across it. You'd have to know where it is. And even then it's, it is a rigorous hike to get back there.
[00:03:06] And do you ever stop and think to yourself, why am I back here? It would be easier if I was somewhere else. Do you have those thoughts?
[00:03:16] Julie: Yeah, for sure. All the time, actually, when I'm driving past a place and it will just jump out at me and my heart will start beating really fast and all the memories flood me and I'm like, oh my gosh, keep it together. Keep your eyes on the road.
[00:03:30] Just drive. I've got my kids in the car. It's a different day. And I have to go through all of that mentally to tell myself I'm in a different position. I'm not there. It's not happening. But I definitely think, how nice would it be to not drive past that? But I also feel like if I were to run and hide in a different state, I feel like they're winning and I don't wanna give them that. They've taken so much from me. I don't feel like they should be able to take the place where I love to live, because I love Utah. This is my home. And so definitely I've had those thoughts where it would be easier to be somewhere else.
[00:04:04] But on the other hand, this is where I choose to be. And I don't want them to take any more of my choices.
[00:04:10] Elizabeth: I think that's so powerful. And I definitely know that being triggered by locations, by places is very common. For all of us, for all survivors, it's common to be triggered. It's very common to just have like flashbacks and a flood of memories.
[00:04:27] Is that what you do when you experience those? You just almost give yourself a reality check, or a perspective check and be like, I'm not there anymore. I'm with my kids. Or do you go through breathing exercises or do you have, what are your coping tools?
[00:04:41] Julie: Yeah, the first thing that I do is I look around me and I try to bring myself back to the present moment.
[00:04:47] This is, this is not 2009. This is 2022. It's been a long time. I'm here with my kids. They're a little more grown up. I'm a little more grown up. The streets are different. Yes. That shop where he took me is still there, but it's probably different people working there. I just try to bring myself back into the present day and try to have a contrast between today and what it was back then.
[00:05:12] And I definitely do breathing exercise. I like this one I learned very in the early stages of therapy is to spot things like I see the red light, it's so red. I see the green tree. It's very green. I smell, I roll down my window. I can smell different smells. I smell the flowers, I smell the cut grass and all of these things bring me back to the present moment and then I can get through it, but I'll go home, and sometimes it will hit me later and I'll wind up with a migraine or just sick to my stomach and can't get out of bed. So I still struggle with it quite a bit. I consider myself very much in the midst of my healing still, I'm by no means at the end. And I don't even know if there is an end really.
[00:05:56] Elizabeth: Not to sound negative, but I think that life will continually be healing from life
[00:06:01] Julie: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:01] Elizabeth: Because, if you are to, quote, "get better" something else will happen and you'll deal with that. And then you'll keep going and then something else. So, hopefully yes, life has its loop-de-loops and ups and downs, but hopefully, we keep moving forward.
[00:06:20] Julie: Yeah, definitely. I think my progress, even though I'm in the middle of it, I feel like my progress is on the up. And I, if I look back just two years ago, I couldn't be here right now two years ago. There's no way I can be talking about it this way.
[00:06:34] And so just seeing the progress that I made, I think that's important to really realize the progress we've made. It's so easy to forget it and be stuck in the moment and be like, I can't just be a normal person and go walk through the grocery store. And I get so envious of other people that seem to do that with ease and just little things that maybe wouldn't think about that are so difficult for me.
[00:06:55] But if I look at where I've come from, I was in bed for a solid year. Not able to get out, not able to take care of my kids or be with my family. And so I've come a long ways. And I try to remember that.
[00:07:08] Elizabeth: Oh, I think, even like from when we first had our first episode together where we talked through your story, just, that wasn't in person cuz it was during COVID, but I'm, we're in person today, which is so nice.
[00:07:21] But even from then, just the way that you're speaking and the way that you are seeming so calm and at ease right now is, I didn't, like I said, I didn't see you cuz it was over zoom before, but the whole feel feels like you're like you're stronger.
[00:07:36] Julie: Yeah. Thank you. I do feel like I'm stronger.
[00:07:38] I feel like I've come a long ways. Still with a ways to go. I mean, like you said, it's all, it's gonna be my whole life, I figure. I don't see like an end stop point where I'll say, "oh, yay. I'm healed. Like it's over." I don't see that happening. I think this is something that I'm going to live with forever, but that's okay because I'll be able to manage it better.
[00:08:01] Elizabeth: And I think that you just look at it as progress. Not necessarily like this is the end, you just, you make progress. And I think at least for me, I think that's what life is all about is making progress. It's never, I've arrived. This is the end. There's what, no finality in life until what death.
[00:08:22] Yeah. And otherwise you just keep going.
[00:08:25] Julie: Mm-hmm
[00:08:25] Elizabeth: And so I think you're doing great. Think you're doing awesome. Thanks. What do you do for you. Not in the moment of flashback or PTSD. What do you do today that brings you joy? I don't know, taking baths or walking outside or going and laying by the pool. What do you like to do just for you?
[00:08:47] Julie: I think my favorite thing to do is to walk. It's always been my go to, is when I'm stressed or even when I'm just really happy, I wanna walk. I wanna move my legs. And so going for walks is probably my number one thing. I've struggled lately.
[00:09:03] Well, over the last year I've had a hard time getting myself to do the things that I need to do for myself. And that's not anybody's fault or because of anybody it's just simply where I'm at in my healing, that it's been a little difficult to do that. But when I do remember to take the time for myself, I like to go on walks.
[00:09:23] We live in a beautiful area and there's so many places to walk and see nature. And I love being with my dog. My husband will be mad because I said that first before mentioning him, that's N I don't mean it in any, in order, but I love being with my dog with animals and of course just being with my family.
[00:09:44] Elizabeth: There is something so therapeutic about being with animals because there's no judgment from them. There's no, well, I think you should have done this or you did it wrong. They just meet you where you are and are happy to be with you. And yeah, sometimes. Sometimes that's exactly what we need.
[00:10:01] Julie: Yeah. They're amazing. I love that they have no judgment and they just love you unconditionally in a way that it's hard for even humans, your best. Like my husband's my best friend, he's my everything. And I feel like he loves me unconditionally, but there's a way in which my dog can show up and just lay on my lap and love me when I'm just feeling nasty and I, nobody else wants to be around me.
[00:10:24] And that's just amazing. So I love animals.
[00:10:28] Elizabeth: Animals. Yeah, I, they are very therapeutic, although I've gotta say my husband, he bought this little French bulldog. Let's see, not this most recent Christmas, but the Christmas before, but he didn't tell me about it before he bought it. He just like walked in and he was like, look, kids, look what Santa Claus left on the door.
[00:10:45] I have to admit that was not my happiest moment. We just moved into a brand new house and, he is an, he is so adorable. He is so adorable. He is a sweet dog. He does not have a mean bone in his little body, but I tell you he is stalky. He's very muscular. And he moves so fast.
[00:11:06] Like if my three year old's walking by and he runs into her, she doesn't stand a chance. He takes her out like a bowling bin. I mean, he is literally like a little bowling ball when he moves. But the times that he's not acting like a bowling ball and he's just hanging out, those are always wonderful moments.
[00:11:26] Yeah. Sometimes right now, still kind of in that puppy stage, they feel far and few between. Yes, but he's great. And I love him.
[00:11:34] Julie: Yeah. I feel like animals are just sent here to be like our angels, yeah, on earth. I'm so grateful for them and just all of nature. And nature's so beautiful when I feel like things are so bad in the world sometimes seems like a really bad place to me, especially when you're reading the news.
[00:11:51] And you're just hearing about all these horrible things happening. And then I remember my life. Sometimes it's really hard, but when you get outside and you see the sun filtering through the tree leaves it's a little easier to remember that there is so much good in the world. And I've really come to see that with coming through what I've been through.
[00:12:10] When I first came back to Utah, my attitude was this place is bad. People didn't help me here. I was unseen. I was un-cared for. I was exploited and used and abused here, and I just had this bad attitude that it was the people of Utah's fault or, my neighbor's fault or it was somebody's fault.
[00:12:31] And I got back here and had my eyes open to a whole world of people who are supportive and who wanted to accept me for what I've been through without judgment. And be with me on my healing journey. And it's really changed my mind. There's so much good in the world and people are so just inherently good and they want the best for you.
[00:12:53] And that's been amazing.
[00:12:55] Elizabeth: And I think that the people who listen to this, the, they will feel heartbroken to hear that you weren't recognized that, so many terrible things happened to you and nobody saw it. So I'm gonna take a second here to shamelessly plug OnWatch. If you have not taken our free online human trafficking spotting awareness program, do it. Go to iamonwatch.org and take the training. It's free. It's a series of short videos, but it helps you to learn what you're looking at because I'm sure that for you, Julie, there are, were so many people who just had no clue what they were looking at. They had no idea that anything was wrong.
[00:13:40] They didn't know that what they were seeing were red flags. They didn't know what they were seeing was wrong. And if we don't know, how can we act? So if you haven't taken it, if you want to know what you're looking at, if you want to know what the red flags are, if you want to know what to do, like I said, go to iamonwatch.org. Take the training, take the online course, it's free and become a little bit more educated.
[00:14:07] So heaven forbid another story like Julie's doesn't happen, but if it does, you know what to do and you are able to quite literally save another human being. So go and do that. And I don't feel any remorse at all about talking about OnWatch because, we need to know, we need to be educated and, we need to start turning the tide on this topic because it shouldn't be happening and we need to be alert because that's how we can help rescue so many other victims that are in similar situations as you were, Julie.
[00:14:46] So you've got some pretty exciting things coming up in your future. You, I don't know that I wanna say recently, because what you've undertaken is massive, but you decided to write a book. Tell me how you got to that decision, because , I've been down that road and it's not an easy road and it's draining and exhausting in every way you can think of. But talk to me about how you made that decision.
[00:15:13] Julie: Well, it kind of found me, on the one hand ever since I was little, I wanted to write a book. Like I just knew that's what I wanted do. I wanted to do that and I wanted to be a school teacher and those were my aspirations. I did teach preschool. I did start school, college, to go into the education system, but I dropped out because I was pregnant with my first born.
[00:15:36] So that dream never came to fruition, but I always thought someday I'll write a book. The thing is, I thought it would be maybe a children's book or some sort of fiction, or I don't know, I didn't know what it would be, but it would be a fun and happy and light theme. And as it turns out what I ended up writing is my story, my life story, which is by no means fun and light and easy.
[00:16:03] But, it just felt right. So I had some other people talking to me and they actually suggested maybe we should look into doing a book and it struck me as, you know what, that's so obvious to me that's the thing that I should write about. And it's the last that I would choose to write about, but I feel like that's what I'm supposed to write about.
[00:16:25] And so the decision to do it was easy just because it presented itself. And I realized, I asked one question. I said what can I do now that I've escaped. And now that I'm recovering, what's the biggest thing I could do to make the biggest splash as far as giving back and helping others?
[00:16:44] And it was a bunch of people's opinion that it would be to write a book. And so I said, okay, I'll do that. I was really naive going into it and didn't know how hard that would be and what that would take. But it was a really interesting journey. I learned a lot about myself. I put myself in a different perspective, looking at my own story that I don't think I would've got any other way.
[00:17:09] And that was really healing. And I grew a lot from that. And so I think it's been a really good experience. It's been very hard, like you said, very draining and reliving that experience and all the details, really hard. Seeing them on paper is really hard. And imagining sending that out into the world for strangers to read is hard, but I also think that if it can help someone. I know that's cliche, everyone says "if I can just help one person it's worth it." But it's so true. If someone can relate to my story on some level, whether it's childhood or domestic violence or trafficking, or just a bad relationship, or just struggles in life and getting through it, then I feel like I have used my story for good.
[00:17:53] Elizabeth: Well, and they say, write about what you know, and your life has not been light or fun. And who knows your story better than you do. So I applaud and admire you to no end from making that decision. Did you ever feel... for me, when I decided to write my book, I remember just sitting there feeling so overwhelmed because I was like this wasn't just an hour.
[00:18:18] Not that, it just felt so huge because it felt so massive. How do I cover in my case, , nine months, I mean, in your case, 30 plus years, but it just felt like it was so big. How do, how would I survive trying to take that on because I mean, even in day to day life, I mean, there are so many details.
[00:18:45] You can get caught up in the details and just write one chapter on the details of one hour, I... that's how so it was very easy for me to feel overwhelmed. I guess I want to know, did you feel overwhelmed at this challenge? And then what did you do to work your way through it?
[00:19:04] Julie: Yeah, I definitely felt overwhelmed. Just at the very beginning, you're, like you say, you're looking at this experience and I'll just start with trafficking because that's what I what I worked on first and you just look at that section of your life and you're like, how can I get this all on paper? And it's so important to you to get the details on paper because they show how it happened.
[00:19:24] I wasn't just all of a sudden trafficked, there were things that led up to it and things that made me vulnerable to being trafficked. And I wanted to explain that so that people could see how this could happen to someone who is otherwise seems like I'm just gonna say a normal person.
[00:19:40] Not because I think anyone's abnormal, but just like a typical neighbor, like how would this happen to somebody like that? And so I wanted to get that all on paper and explain not because I felt judged so much, but just, it's so important to understand that this can happen to anyone. It really can, you don't have to be in a third world country.
[00:20:01] This happens right here in our neighborhoods to our neighbors, to our family, to our friends. And so it's so important for me to get that in the book and to describe how it came about and how I made decisions that I did things that I never would've dreamed I would've done. Things that go against everything I believe in.
[00:20:25] And yet I did those things out of survival and it was important to me to describe that, that I wasn't participating. I wasn't a participant, a willing participant. Like I, I had no choices. I felt like it was do this and survive or not do it and potentially die or harm my family or something. And so there were a lot of things that I wanted to explain that people may not know unless they've heard from someone like you or have lived that experience.
[00:20:55] And so it was very daunting. I felt like I needed to do it justice for all the other survivors out there too. It wasn't just about me and my book. I wanted to write it for the women that, and the men that can't talk and can't tell their story or don't feel strong enough to, or are not in a position to, I felt like I needed to tell it for their behalf too.
[00:21:18] So it came with a lot of pressure to do it and to tell it right, and to tell it accurate and to tell even the parts that really hurt to even just write down on paper. I didn't like seeing them in black and white and it hurts to imagine people reading about that, but it was important to me. I wanted to be honest, I wanted to do full disclosure as much as I could. There were things that I just couldn't put in the book because they were too sensitive to me. But for the most part it's my story.
[00:21:45] Yeah, it was definitely hard. I think what helped, I had a really good team of writers that helped walk me through it. They were really cautious of, am I getting too deep, too dark? Am I going to be able to climb out of this one after we do this chapter? And they really looked out for me and then I had to do a lot of work with my therapist and on my own, I had to really, I had to really pull myself up and guard myself a little bit so that I could tell it, but not feel it a hundred percent because I would get lost in it.
[00:22:21] So it was a real process for sure. But I just kept thinking of the end goal, which is, if it can help somebody else, if somebody else is in this situation or just needs some hope then I'm willing to do that. And I want to use what happened to me for something good. Because it was so bad, it was so awful.
[00:22:40] And I don't want it to end there at awful. I want it to go on and be something powerful and something useful and potentially helpful.
[00:22:50] Elizabeth: It is so important for survivors to share their stories, because if we don't, we only hear from the other side or some randoms person take on it.
[00:23:01] You can go on Netflix or Amazon Prime or whatever streaming or TV you like to watch and you'll see documentaries or crime documentaries, and you click or you decide to watch 'em and it's easy to sit there and think, well, that was dumb. Why didn't she do that? Why did she do that? I don't understand if I was in that situation, I would've run, I would've screamed. I would've, I don't know, grabbed the kitchen cleaver and gone after him. I mean, it's so easy to sit there and say they should have done this. Or to sit there and judge them.
[00:23:34] To understand what a survivor is going through, the only way we can get that is from the survivor. And hopefully the people who read your book, it gives them a greater understanding and a greater compassion and empathy for all the other survivors they see, or they watch. For instance my husband and I, we recently watched Preaching Evil, a Wife on the Run. Like a docuseries on Warren Jeffs and his wife that was like his scribe and my husband would just sit there and be like, but Elizabeth, like, how on earth?
[00:24:11] Like how were they okay with this? Some of the things he said are just so out of this world, like who could just stand aside and be like, oh yeah, marry my 14 year old daughter. That's totally fine. And I'd sit there and it honestly, it made me sick to my stomach. I'd be like, okay, we've watched enough.
[00:24:29] We need to like, go watch, I don't know, something light and fluffy that has no serious messaging to it at all, that it's only purpose is to make you laugh or just to click off because I'd be like, but, you don't understand, like we're just seeing this one side and this is what they were raised in. I mean, this is what they were taught.
[00:24:49] Like this man, they looked at him as if he was basically God. I mean, they believed he communed with God. And anyway, we'd have these big discussions and I was like, you need to have a little bit more compassion for them, because we weren't there and this was how they were raised. And this is everything that their life was built on into in a split second or in a split minute to go against a lifetime of belief or a lifetime of repetition and practice. That is a huge, huge deal.
[00:25:22] And so, like I was saying, it is so important to have survivors speak their truth, speak their side, because otherwise you just don't know. My husband, it was easy for him to sit there and be like let you know, like "why" and then for me I could sit there and I could be like, I can have I have a clue of maybe how this could happen or how they could be okay because of my experience. And because watching that was honestly like watching the nine months that I was kidnapped because you could almost say that my captor, he was clearly not as successful as Warren Jeffs was, but he more or less wanted the same things as Warren Jeffs had. And so it's so important that survivors share their stories and give that understanding and that compassion.
[00:26:11] So that future, sad as it is, future generations of survivors, don't go through that same kind of judgment and prejudice and stereotypes that you and I have gone through.
[00:26:21] Julie: Yeah. I definitely, I've had so many people ask me and they're genuinely asking it and I understand where they're coming from, because I really can put myself in their shoes and think I would wanna know that too.
[00:26:34] That would be my question. But even a judge, when I testified against my trafficker, the judge even asked me, "why didn't you run? Why didn't you just scream? You were around people, you were in a store like you could have just screamed." And I thought, wow. Even the judge is asking that, and I'm sure he hears a whole bunch of terrible stories.
[00:26:53] But yeah people don't understand why you wouldn't just speak up or run away. And it's complicated. It's a hard thing to describe. I just, we don't have to get into it, but there's so many reasons why I didn't and the number one was for survival. That I was in, I was in a survival mode.
[00:27:11] Every decision I made was about survival. It was about getting to the next day. And even if that meant making decisions that I would never make in my normal life. And that's a hard thing to describe. So I really tried to describe that in the book is, listen, this is how I made that decision. This is why I made that decision.
[00:27:30] And this is how I felt like I didn't have any other choices available to me. So I hope that I describe that well enough, because I think that's really important that people get an understanding of that because I do get that that's hard to understand.
[00:27:45] Elizabeth: And I'm so glad that you did explain that. I'm so sorry that even the judge asked you that, I've been asked the same question numerous times and actually just recently I learned that there is a state that does, that if you're raped, they don't class it as rape unless you physically fight back.
[00:28:05] And it just breaks my heart because nobody wakes up in the morning and thinks "today is a good day to get raped. I'm gonna go get raped today," or "that's on the plan. That's on my schedule for the day." Nobody wakes up and thinks that nobody ever wakes up hopefully and thinks today is a good day for that to happen, but it does happen.
[00:28:26] When you're not living in a life of fear and terror, it's easy to sit there and think, well, I would do this. "Of course I would fight back. Of course I would try to protect myself." But you just don't expect it. So it's, I mean, it's so common for this deep state of shock and freeze to overcome you and then fear. And then clearly this person that's raping me is bigger than I am. They can physically overpower me otherwise, you know, this wouldn't be happening right now.
[00:28:57] It just broke my heart learning that. And so I I'm so sorry that you have had to answer this question, but getting back on and beating my drum I am so appreciative that you do answer that because there is a lack of understanding and honestly compassion because they don't understand.
[00:29:17] So I think that is so brave of you to really dive into that subject and tackle it. It's a hard, it's a hard subject to dive into. Now your book is not out yet, but we're thinking...
[00:29:31] Julie: Roughly, thinking early next year.
[00:29:33] Elizabeth: Early next year. Okay. So early 2023. So make sure you keep your eyes and ears out for that, because I know it will be compelling and heart wrenching, but inspiring.
[00:29:50] And I really feel inspiring, encouraging, but just powerful in, in moving forward.
[00:29:57] Julie: Thanks. I hope so.
[00:29:59] Elizabeth: I'm sure it will be. I'm very excited for you.
[00:30:01] Julie: Thank you.
[00:30:02] Elizabeth: What do you see in your future now?
[00:30:05] Julie: The book is a big thing that I'm working towards and I feel, it's so funny because people that know me know that I'm super shy. I'm really introverted. I'm not the type of person to be on stage talking or even doing a podcast. That's just not my personality. And yet I feel really compelled to do those things. And I feel compelled to tell my story and, for so many reasons. And some of them are purely selfish. Like it makes me feel like I'm taking my power back and there's some shame associated with secrets and I'm not willing to carry that shame for their secrets anymore.
[00:30:47] And so I feel really empowered when I say I'm going to tell their secrets and I'm not gonna hold that for them anymore. And that's not mine to keep, that's theirs. Those were their decisions, what they did to me, and I'm not going to keep quiet about it anymore. And so I think just continuing to tell my story and share it wherever I can, wherever it's helpful.
[00:31:08] I'm not out there to just tell another sad story and make people feel bad for me. It's not about that. I just, I just really want people to understand number one, to have the awareness that this is happening, all of these things, trafficking primarily, but I mean, domestic violence and child abuse and to really wrap their heads around it can be your little kid's best friend, and you might see this child all the time, but it could be happening to them.
[00:31:35] And like you said, with the iamonwatch.org, getting familiar with the signs of trafficking and knowing what to do if you see them is huge to me, that's very important to me that people be aware. Because I really can't put myself in their position and say, if I had seen myself as an outsider while I was being trafficked, what would I have thought?
[00:31:59] Well, I would've thought that I was a willing participant too. I would've thought those are the choices she's making. I'm gonna try not to judge her, but boy, she's messing up. And for sure, I would've felt like it's none of my business. I would've thought, to each their own, if that's how she wants to live, whatever it doesn't look right, but that's her choice. I'm not gonna interfere. And so I love. I love the awareness piece of letting people know, no, that is your business. We're all each other's business and please do get involved and don't feel like you can't speak up if you see something that feels wrong to you and follow your gut.
[00:32:35] So awareness is a huge part of what I want to continue doing to help people understand what it looks like and what they can do so they feel empowered in those situations. There was a time I was being trafficked and I jumped out of the truck and I started running down the road and there was a car coming in the opposite direction and I was waving my arms and screaming, " please stop. Please help me." And about the time they were even with me, my trafficker caught up with me and dragged me back to the truck. And this car, the people in the car. They didn't know what to do. And they drove very slowly and watched for a moment, and then they drove on.
[00:33:17] And I think about them all the time. And I don't have any hard feelings because I can really put myself in their spot and say, I might've done the same thing, that might've looked really scary to me, and I would've thought let's just get outta here. I don't wanna be involved in this. But for the next person that's in that car, if they can be more aware and at the very least have a phone number to call, I would feel like I did my job.
[00:33:40] If I could help...
[00:33:41] Elizabeth: 911.
[00:33:42] Julie: 911. Yes.
[00:33:42] Elizabeth: That's the number to call.
[00:33:44] Julie: Yeah, for sure. So I hope that I'll continue advocating and creating awareness in this space.
[00:33:53] Elizabeth: Well, I don't think, first of all, I don't think any of the reasons that you mentioned are selfish. I think they're really inspiring and encouraging.
[00:34:02] And I know that I certainly am so appreciative of you sharing your story and of coming here and being here today, because there are so many people, so many people who never share their story or who carry the pain of what they've experienced around with them for their whole life. And it's important to know that you can survive.
[00:34:26] That no matter what you're going through, because I think all of us have a story. Hopefully they're not all as extreme as kidnapping, trafficking, but we all experience pain in life and it's good to see someone come out on the other side it's and recognize no life is still hard, but you can get better and you can move forward and you can reclaim your voice and your life.
[00:34:54] My last question for you is, are you happy?
[00:34:59] Julie: Yes, I would say I am happy. I'm, am I happy as I want to be? No, I'm working toward that, but I am happy. I feel satisfied with where, I feel satisfied with where I'm going, and I'm happy to be alive, which for years, I wasn't even sure I could say that.
[00:35:18] And I can definitely say that I'm happy to be alive and I'm happy to have these experiences and be moving forwards always now. And there's some back slides here and there, but for the most part, my trajectory is forward and that's a great place to be.
[00:35:34] Elizabeth: I love your answer. I love your honesty.
[00:35:37] You're absolutely right. Life is definitely hard and we all have potholes and back slides along the way. I certainly have mine. But I wanna thank you so much for being here today and talking with me again and sharing your experiences and your insights. I feel encouraged and inspired to keep on because it is hard.
[00:36:02] And sometimes when you feel like you're the only one out there doing something you want to give up, but hearing other survivors. Is encouraging for me and makes me feel like I'm not the only one in this. I can keep going. I can keep doing this. She's gonna understand what I think she's gonna understand how I feel.
[00:36:18] I'm not crazy. Well, maybe I am, but she'll understand why I'm crazy. So I wanna say thank you from the bottom of my heart and thank you to everyone for listening today. Make sure if you enjoy today to like and subscribe from this episode and we will catch you all next time on smart Talks. See you soon.