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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Elizabeth: You are listening to Smart Talks with the Elizabeth Smart Foundation.

[00:00:10] I'm your host, Elizabeth Smart. Smart Talks provides survivors and supporters with tools for healing, a sense of community, and empowerment so we can all heal and move forward together.

[00:00:22] Hello, and welcome to another episode of Smart Talks by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I am Elizabeth, and today I am joined by a guest, Stephanie. And I met Stephanie, I think it's just been under a year now and we connected through mutual friends. And I remember when I first heard a little bit about Stephanie's story, I, not only was heartbroken, but it just reminded me how easy abuse is to silence and to keep covered up and how incredibly amazing it is for any survivor of any situation to come forward, but especially when the cards are stacked against you. And so Stephanie has so graciously agreed to come on today's episode. And I think that many of you who are listening will feel comforted in knowing that you are not alone, and knowing that there are other people out there who have experienced very similar things.

[00:01:21] And I'm hoping that you can walk away from today feeling encouraged. Like you can keep going, like your life isn't over, that you can still reclaim your future. And that, I mean, ultimately that you're not alone and you don't have to be scared of the future, that there are paths available to you.

[00:01:38] And there are people out there who believe you and support you and want to help you succeed the very most in your life. So, Stephanie, thank you so much for joining me today.

[00:01:48] Stephanie: Thank you.

[00:01:49] Elizabeth: Just to begin with, can you tell me a little bit about your life today? I mean, you don't need to say where you live or anything like that, but just talk about your life in general and who you are today.

[00:01:59] Stephanie: Sure. I'm a mother. So I have four daughters. They are all mostly grown. My oldest is 25. She is married and has two children. My next is 22, and then I have a 19 year old, and a 16 year old. So my husband and my daughters, and my two grandkids are my main interest, my main hobby, I also have a small business that I run, where we teach sewing and cooking classes to kids after school.

[00:02:23] That's kind of just something that started as a hobby and turned into a business. So that keeps me busy as well. Like I said, family is, pretty paramount. That's what I enjoy the most is spending time with family outside of my business is it allows me. I employ a couple of my daughters, the ones that wanna work there.

[00:02:37] And so that's fun too. Get to work with them, which is nice.

[00:02:40] Elizabeth: So family is very important and I agree.

[00:02:43] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:02:44] Elizabeth: Can you now kind of going back and taking me back, can you talk to me a little bit about what your childhood was like?

[00:02:51] Stephanie: Yeah, my childhood, I'm the fifth of seven children, very happy, loving home. I think I probably had a bit of, the classic middle child, I'm not exactly in the middle, but I am kind of in the middle, not the oldest, not the youngest, was raised, in a strong LDS family.

[00:03:08] Those values were pretty paramount in my home as far as obedience and structure, not in a, I wouldn't say in a negative way per se, but that definitely had shaped my way of thinking of right versus wrong. What's okay to do what's okay not to do. As far as well, maybe I'm jumping forward to, when the abuse started and how that facilitated.

[00:03:30] But I do think that.

[00:03:31] Elizabeth: Let's go there. Just, okay.

[00:03:33] Stephanie: Okay. I think that had somewhat of an effect, a pretty strong effect on me feeling like I could not come forward during the years of abuse. I'll explain that in a minute. You want me to just go ahead and tell?

[00:03:46] Elizabeth: Yeah, go ahead. Yeah,

[00:03:47] Stephanie: Go ahead with that? Okay. my story, I think, as I've thought , and read and listened to other accounts of survivors, they're all different. And as far as, the manner of the abuse, the type, , what the abuser looks like, where it happens, the extent, there's so many variables that to the outside, I would look like that's a completely different story.

[00:04:07] I think the one thing that they all have in common is the damage to the soul. The feelings of worthlessness and powerlessness. So when I was 14 years old, my sister, sister is five years older than I am, married a man, who to the outside world looked like, they looked like the perfect couple.

[00:04:24] My sister was kind of the star of the family. Everyone loved her. She is a magnetic personality, everyone, anywhere she goes, people want to be around her. They are, they want to be with her. Her husband was much the same way. At a young age, he had church callings in powerful positions. And, that to me was another part of the confusion when the abuse started, which was shortly after were married, So they were married when I was 14. I am gonna say within, I I'm fuzzy now. I think it was a month or so after they were married, my dad was diagnosed with the stage four lymphoma, which kind of just sent everything tumbling upside down.

[00:05:02] My parents went back to, NIH, National cancer institutes in Bethesda, Maryland. And the obvious choice to be the caregiver was my sister and her husband, which was great in my mind because they were fun. They were young. I was incredibly close with my sister.

[00:05:17] What I had no idea was that that provided the perfect grooming opportunity. I have two younger sisters. I have an older brother, so there were four of us at home at the time, my older brother, and then the three youngest, which was me and my two younger sisters. They were, obviously, my parents were, completely engrossed in the cancer treatments and trying to save my dad's life.

[00:05:37] And my sister and brother-in-law were the parent figures. And that was, that allowed him to gain our trust to, really do what I didn't know at the time, but was grooming us. The abuse started, the actual physical abuse started probably about six months later, and it was completely confusing to me.

[00:05:56] I couldn't make sense of this person who I pretty much idolized and thought this is the perfect, he checks all of the marks as far as, intelligent, very nice looking, good standing in our church, everything made sense. So in my 15 year old brain, I had to flip that around and try to make sense of it.

[00:06:15] And the only way to make sense was that either I'm making this up and it isn't actually happening or, it's probably not actually bad, and I just need to make sense of this however I can, because this person that I see and this person who I hear everyone praising him and saying what a great guy he is, he must be that great of a guy. So I'm probably the problem.

[00:06:35] And that continued for close to 10 years. And I didn't know that it was happening simultaneously also with my two younger sisters who were, three years younger and six years younger than I was all throughout that time. It was pretty convenient for him, I would say, because that was also the span, that was the exact span that my dad underwent, he was cured of the lymphoma, but then another had a relapse and another cancer. And, so the cancer, until he passed away was about 10 years. And the abuse took place all during that time.

[00:07:02] There was a lot else going on. That was kind of a good cover for him not to mention who he was, nobody would ever suspect that he could possibly do that. And he was the kind of person that, people would, even people who didn't know him or my sister, flocked him and would just would say out of the blue, "he is just such a great guy. Oh, he is just so wonderful." And to my developing brain I could not make sense of that.

[00:07:24] Elizabeth: So for 10 years you never said anything to anyone and you blamed, to some degree blamed yourself or tried to make sense of it yourself. Somehow, it's your fault for 10 years.

[00:07:36] Stephanie: There was never, ever a single threat. Never. He never said don't tell anyone or this, don't, it was never, but it, but that was almost, I think if he had said that, that would've been an admission, that it was actually happening. And I think, and I don't know if he knew that, but in my mind, if he had ever said to me, don't tell anyone, that would've been permission or even a, I don't know, a way for me to say, okay, then something is actually happening.

[00:07:59] I should say something.

[00:08:01] Elizabeth: And did your younger sisters ever say anything?

[00:08:05] Stephanie: No. And they, they thought that it was only them. And I think we all felt like our, with the situation with our dad and his health and all the other things that were going on, we thought if we can, I think they thought this.

[00:08:18] I know I did. If I can just take this, kind of take one for the team, the family will be okay. And I just thought I cannot add one more thing, really onto my parents. I can't, that would crush them. That would crush their idea of this oldest, not the oldest, actually the third child, but the, the daughter that kind of took care. She was, she kind of just took care of everything for the family and just made things work. And they had very high, held her and very high regard. And I almost, that was as much, there were a lot of things at play, but that was definitely one thing at play. I couldn't take that away from my parents when they were going through my dad dying, basically.

[00:08:55] My silence was just kind of, I thought this is a way that I can help my family. That was kind of the base of the actual, the silent part of the abuse, I guess you could say.

[00:09:04] When I was just before, it was like weeks before my first daughter was born, my youngest sister was 17, and she, this was, my dad had passed away two months prior. My youngest sister was at a sleepover with a group of friends and she says, I have no idea how I even, how it even came out. I didn't mean to say anything, but somehow she said something and she said, I looked at their faces and could tell they thought something, that's not normal.

[00:09:30] And she said, I just kept talking and telling them what had happened. And several of them started crying. And she said, at that point I just was panicking and said, "don't say anything. Don't say anything." You know, that. Thankfully, a couple of them went and told their parents who then trying to think of how It was kind of a little bit of a disjointed, I think everyone was tiptoeing around, didn't wanna hurt my mom anymore. They knew that she was a recent widow and they went to our, I believe my mom's, a friend of a friend went and told my mom's bishop, who then called my, didn't still didn't wanna call my mom called my older brothers, and talked to them.

[00:10:08] And then they went and talked to my mom. And it didn't go over. Well, I think my mom was still, obviously in a great sense of, there was still a lot of trauma from having just lost my dad, but she didn't quite know how to take it and was upset at maybe the wrong, she wasn't sure who to be upset with. That part was really, really messy because the abuse had then come out. I'm not sure why. And again, this would've been, this was 1996, so it was a long time ago. But I do know that there, I, I believe there was still mandatory. It, they, the Bishop, I believe would've been, I think, required to report that because she was still 17. Was never reported.

[00:10:46] The religious part gets a little, this is where I have some, I think religion can do a lot of good. I think it, can also do a lot of harm if it's misused. He, so my abuser basically was caught. He never came forward on his own. He was caught and forced after several people told him you have to confess to this or else, he finally said, "okay. Yeah, I did it. There was no church disciplinary action taken against him. They never reported him to the police." It was just kind of, "we were told, take care of this in your family. Love, forgive. That's what Jesus would do. You need to help him. You need to help rehabilitate him." So that was then kind of put on us, as my sisters and I, that we needed to help him. Part of it is people can't, when you see someone who looks like him, you don't want to believe that is possible.

[00:11:33] And I think a lot of it was also, he is in good standing in our church, therefore that couldn't have been possible. He was in, he was in high positions, so that couldn't have been possible. Well, but what that did when it was brought to light, is it, I think it shifted at least in my brain, the abuse from the silent abuse where I knew I can, this is what's happening to me, but I have some measure of control over it.

[00:11:55] My fear was always if I tell someone, because I did, I thought about it many times, if I tell someone, he will, he'll laugh it off. He'll say that I am just a pervert and I'm imagining these things. And I, because I wish these things, because he had used tactics like that in the past where he kind of joked with me and said things and tested the waters in front of people and making me out to be telling people that I was a pervert, which was really weird, but.

[00:12:20] And then I also thought, I just thought I couldn't take that. I'd rather take my chances and just have it happen than say something and have him turn it on me and have nothing be done about it. Because if I voiced it and said it, and then nothing were still done, that would be more painful.

[00:12:34] So once things came out and that the silent part of it ended, then I guess, a different silent phase of the abuse began where, yes, everybody knew what happened, but let's not talk about it because we, what we need to do here is move forward. I don't know if this is true or not, but in my mind it felt like there was a lot more focus on " let's help heal the abuser," than. " What happened to these girls and how can we help them and what is happening right now with them?"

[00:13:05] Elizabeth: I mean,

[00:13:05] Stephanie: There was a big focus on that.

[00:13:08] Elizabeth: You're absolutely right. No, I was just gonna say you're, you're absolutely right. I mean, even when we follow big cases in the news, in the media, the attention and the focus always does revert back to the perpetrator. It's finding the victim or making sure they're safe or, heaven forbid, tragedy, and they're dead, but the focus immediately goes back to the perpetrator, finding them, punishing them, or what's happening to them.

[00:13:35] It doesn't stick with the victim, very long. So I think what you're saying is actually right on par with the general trends within situations of abuse and kidnapping and, and violent crimes against well, really anyone.

[00:13:49] Did your sister, I'm curious, did she believe your younger sisters?

[00:13:54] Stephanie: That was interesting as well. In the very beginning, yes, she did. There's no way that she, she couldn't have not, because at that point her husband was admitting. Yes, I did those things.

[00:14:06] But she went at warp speed from horrified, how could this have to, okay, it happened, but it's over now. And, he needs to be a part of your life and we need to, she kind of spearheaded the making sure he was at every family event, making sure that he was visible and there, and he never missed an opportunity. It was kind of like the physical part.

[00:14:32] He could no longer do that. But the psychological part was amped up where he would find ways to, any time he could come over and just say some little, and he didn't need to say more than like three or four words. He did it and would just say something to kind of let us know "I'm still here."

[00:14:49] She became very, her whole focus was how can we erase this and make this go away? And I talked to her, I don't talk to her anymore, but through the years I talked to her and told her what would be helpful in my healing, and invariably, she came back with, well, I'm trying to help my family heal. And that won't, that would not help my family.

[00:15:10] And I said, okay, then, because she would ask me from time to time, how can I, it was more in reaction to things that I was doing, that she didn't like ways that, or if I didn't want to come to something because he would be there. Or my youngest sister, did not want him at her wedding. And the sister of the perpetrator was livid about that. Tore her apart and said, how, how could you do this to me? How could you, and she said, I just don't want him there. I don't want him at my wedding.

[00:15:38] Elizabeth: Good for her for standing up for herself.

[00:15:40] Stephanie: Yeah. And that, and that was really, really hard. And our mom was a little bit unhappy that she ruffled those feathers.

[00:15:47] And I think, I think our mom just didn't really understand. That was really the first time. And that was brutal, when she said, "I don't want him at the wedding." But she kind of went on a crusade to hide, to make sure that the face he put forward to the world is the one that she wanted him to, and that everyone would accept him and not see him as this scary person. The frightening thing to me is that was her full attention and still is today.

[00:16:10] However, I haven't seen him in, I don't know, last time I saw him was at his sentencing, which would've been nine years ago. I haven't seen him since that day. I just have no need to, but well for when he was in prison for a while. I can say without a doubt, he never once missed an opportunity anytime I was with him to say something that would undermine and let me know, I'm still here. I don't understand my sister, she's his greatest champion. And these are her three younger sisters that she knows what's happened. And we've told her the things that have continued to happen. And she has an excuse for every single one of them. So I don't understand it, but that's the way she operates.

[00:16:46] Elizabeth: These are incredibly difficult topics. Even just speaking about them publicly, they're scary, hard topics that are very heavy. I mean, even when I go out and public speak, I know there's a lot of people in the audience who end up feeling a little bit uncomfortable as I speak about 'em.

[00:17:04] So I feel like there is a part of me that can kind of understand your sister's perspective and that the person who she committed her life to and thought she loved so much, how could he possibly do that? There must be some misunderstanding and, oh, well, if it's done, let's hurry up and cover it.

[00:17:20] But that is incredibly selfish on her part because what has happened to you and your sisters and the way that it has been handled and treated since is completely unacceptable. It makes me so frustrated and angry to hear how many people were just willing to sweep it under the rug to be like, okay, well it's in the past now, let's move on. That is so unfair. And that is the exact opposite of everything that I feel like I've spent the last well, really since my, my own story, the last 20 years, fighting against. Because no victim, no survivor should feel what you and your sisters felt. And, still just, for me, one of the biggest blessings in my life is that what happened to me came from a stranger and I didn't have to go to family gatherings and I, he didn't have to come to my wedding and, and nobody ever said anything to me about ever seeing him again.

[00:18:20] And, and fortunately, I don't think I will ever have to see him again. I mean once the trial was over and once the sentencing was over, I don't think I'll ever have to see him again. And that's how you, you should have been given that option as well. And it makes me so upset for you and your sisters that that was not an option that was given, and that there is even pressure on you to fix him because that's never was your responsibility.

[00:18:45] Just really unacceptable on every level.

[00:18:49] Stephanie: Yeah.

[00:18:50] Elizabeth: What do you feel has helped you move forward in your life?

[00:18:55] Stephanie: Thankfully I have a husband who, he was not aware because I truthfully wasn't aware I had buried it to such a degree when we were married. He didn't know what had happened. And the first few years of marriage were pretty, there was a lot of trauma that was still surfacing because I had not ever talked about it to anyone.

[00:19:14] He recognized that something was wrong. He had absolutely no idea what, since everything came to light and he learned what happened, he's always been very persuasive that this needs to come to light and it's not going to help anyone or anything to keep it in the dark. And it, it caused a lot of strife and a lot of struggles between us because I was kind of stuck in if I'm good, and if I follow these religious tenants that I've been taught and these beliefs, then I do what I'm told and what I'm being told to do right now is to help rehabilitate the perpetrator. That is the good thing to do.

[00:19:50] And it will not be a good thing for me. If I focus on myself, that's being selfish. My husband kind of said, that's ridiculous. That's not going to help anyone. You need to bring this light and do whatever it is that you need to do. Not only to help heal yourself, but he said, if you, if you can't think of it that way, think about protecting others, because if he is allowed to stay in the shadows and if he's protected to this degree and you still see these behaviors happening, he is going to do this to other people.

[00:20:16] There's just not a question. I think that was the one thing that finally got to me because I didn't have the sense of self-worth, at least at the time to say, I can do this for me, but I did feel like, okay, I can do this for someone else. So he helped me through that. I've spent a lot of hours with professional counseling, that's helped a lot, kind of just unpacking my feelings and emotions and realizing it's okay to worry about myself.

[00:20:41] It's okay to take care of myself and to figure out my feelings and my feelings are valid. They have worth and they have meaning. I've also had to, I am still active in my faith, but I think I've had to, to kind of give myself a little bit of a wider birth with that, of feeling like some of these things that I was taught, as far as church leaders who have been called to these positions, you don't ever question what they say, because what they say is right, and they are called of God, and they have authority.

[00:21:10] I think sometimes that's not always true. and I've felt a great sense of peace and empowerment and just a lot more settled since I've realized that and realized that I have a voice for myself and I need to be my own advocate sometimes. And often I am my only, and my best advocate. That was kind of a tenant of religion that was very highly underscored in my home, that c hurch leaders know best and you obey. And that means that you're a good person, if you obey and do what you're asked to do. That lended itself in many, many aspects of my life to allowing the abuse to happen and to continue because I didn't.

[00:21:50] And then once it came out to not doing what I thought I needed to do, which was to bring this perpetrator to justice in the, in the criminal sense, because I really thought that was the only possibility of protecting others from him. But I was counseled against that many, many times, which I think was wrong.

[00:22:06] Elizabeth: I couldn't agree more. And I think you're absolutely right. there's a few things that just stand out so much to me.

[00:22:12] And they probably resonate so much to me because they were a part of my story as well. One of 'em being that religion can be such a powerful tool for good. It can do so many wonderful things and bring peace to so many, but at the same time, it can be used as such a dangerous weapon, as

[00:22:31] Stephanie: Mm-hmm ,

[00:22:31] Elizabeth: As you've just shared, that happened in your story.

[00:22:34] That happened in my story. I think that's happened in many stories. And the second point that you hit on that also stands out so much to me is when you are talking about, in your healing about how important it was to be your own advocate and essentially to figure out your boundaries and respecting them, and maybe even being your own defender of your own boundaries, cuz recognizing that other people will just want you to roll over for them or push them aside. And I feel like that is also something that stands out very much to me with my own story as well, but also with so many other victims and survivors that I have met that learning to build your relationship up with yourself, to the point where you have enough self respect that you aren't just going to roll over for the next person who comes along, is a huge part of healing and a huge part of moving forward. And finding those, those boundaries of what you're okay with, what you're not okay with and defending them is, I think, a huge, huge, huge step to having a healthier life in the future.

[00:23:42] So, I mean, what you've really said just speaks out so much, well, at least to me personally, but I know because honestly there's not a time when I go to the grocery store that I'm not stopped and something's not said even, even when I change my hair, I'm still, I still have something said to me, so.

[00:24:02] I'm still recognized. So I know you're definitely not alone. And I just feel like the points that you've brought up are so powerful and so many people need to hear because you're absolutely right. Once again, when you were talking about how the different stories, they're different, but a lot's the same.

[00:24:20] You're absolutely right. The big picture kind of is the same. It's just kind of the details that are different. But to hear you speaking about 'em and really shining a light on them and not allowing them to hide in the darkness anymore, I think is such a service to humanity, because if we allow these terrible things, these dark secrets to stay in the dark, then we can never address them and we can never get them into the light and expose them and talk about, , how can we prevent this from happening in the future?

[00:24:51] What are the red flags we should be looking for as a community, as a church, as schools, as companies, as we make up our neighborhoods, what are things that should stand out to us if we notice something and, I just think, thank goodness, your youngest sister's friends didn't just stay silent. I always tell my kids, we don't keep secrets. Surprises, you can keep, but not secrets. Secrets are not okay to keep. And if someone tells you don't say anything, you need to tell me.

[00:25:22] So thank goodness, right? For your sister's friends who said something and, and started to unravel this nightmare, honestly.

[00:25:30] Yeah. How do you feel about where things stand today?

[00:25:34] I think about your life. I don't wanna say in terms of justice, because I don't think in these kinds of instances justice can ever really be served. I mean, things were taken away from you and from your sisters that no amount of time or money could ever give back. But do you feel like karma has come back around?

[00:25:55] Do you feel happy with where you are in your life right now? Do you. If there's anything missing, do you feel like there's something that you would like to see happen?

[00:26:04] Stephanie: Yeah, that's a, that's a complicated answer, but karma, I feel like the only way that I can and I, short answer is yes, I do. I feel happy. I feel like I have a really good life. Things are good. I'm safe. I have a lot of very loving, supportive, wonderful relationships, the complicated piece for me, and the part that I have to somehow separate myself from is that sister and her husband seem to continue to find their way back into good graces with society, at large and religion.

[00:26:39] And, I have to let that go and figure if they want to, I know that he has not completely come forward with everything because I have had a handful of people who have come to me and told me things that happened to them, that he did to them that were eerily similar to my own experience. And he has denied those, which would have completely altered both his prison sentence and things in, in the religious realm. He has denied those, or, because I think because he knows he can, he can get around them. So I know he's not being completely truthful, but I also know that he has, he is rewarded as far as to the outside world. It looks like he's in great standing in everything that he does.

[00:27:20] I just have to let that go and not think about that because it's upsetting. And I can't force anything to change on that end. I wish that I could completely remove them from my life. I know that my mom still has contact with them. She's going to their son's wedding next week. And he's, you know, that those are her grandchildren.

[00:27:41] It's very, very complicated. I can't really pass judgment on that and say what I would or wouldn't do. This is her daughter and her grandchildren, and she wants to still have a relationship with them. And there's a little bit of a sting there. I wish that there weren't some ways I think I maybe need to grow up a little bit and not let that sting, but it does. Because this is someone who has altered not only my life, but the shape of my own nuclear family, as far as my siblings and parents and the way that we relate to each other and that the judgements that people, that various people in the family pass on each other because of what happened and how this person reacted.

[00:28:16] And, and my three, my two sisters and I all reacted in a little bit different ways and there were judgements passed on. She's handling it better. She's not handling it so well. She should have done this. Gosh, sorry. This is a very long answer to what you asked.

[00:28:27] Elizabeth: That's okay.

[00:28:28] Stephanie: Um, so yeah, I all in all, it's good. If I could, if there were a way that I could completely separate myself and just say, I don't need any part of him in my life, but somehow he continues to have a part because of the nature of family relationships. And I guess I could sever all relationships from all of my siblings. I don't want to do that. That wouldn't, I don't think that would serve me. Well, I have pretty, I have severed relationships with that one sister. So all in all it's good. Like I said, if I could completely, I think it would be helpful to me if I could completely remove him from my life, but I don't think that's ever really gonna happen.

[00:29:02] Elizabeth: If there was one thing that you would want other people listening to this to know, who have maybe experienced something similar, what would it be?

[00:29:11] Stephanie: Oh, gosh, one thing.

[00:29:14] Elizabeth: I mean, it can be a couple of things.

[00:29:16] Stephanie: I think the most important thing that I would, that I would say to my younger self and, and probably to others is, you have worth, you have a lot of worth and don't ever let anyone make you think that you don't, because I think that is a commonality among most victims. And I think that is how perpetrators gain the upper hand somehow diminishing the worth of the individual.

[00:29:40] And that is, I think one of the deepest and ugliest lies that we believe, that we're made to believe is that we don't have any worth. And that to me is scarier than physical harm, than losing material things, that I think that is the most powerful, the greatest thing that we have is self worth. And that's the one thing my abuser anyway, I think took for me, was that was the biggest thing that he took. I wish that I could go back and tell my younger self that and tell everyone else there out there, you absolutely have worth. You have infinite worth. And just because someone who has absolutely no right to do any of these things to you has chosen to.

[00:30:19] That has nothing to do with who you are and your incredible worth as a human being.

[00:30:25] Elizabeth: Thank you. You're absolutely right. I would want every person out there to know the same thing, because, knowing that you have worth no matter what, and building that knowledge inside you, I think it does make all the difference because then, you know, what's okay and what's not okay.

[00:30:41] And you know that you don't have to stay silent or that if you only wanna tell one person that you can, but that you...

[00:30:48] Stephanie: Mm-hmm ,

[00:30:48] Elizabeth: You don't have to keep it a secret. And so thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. Stephanie, your story is incredible and heartbreaking, and it is, it's, I don't wanna say common, that makes it sound terrible,

[00:31:02] Stephanie: But no, I, I, I think that's probably right.

[00:31:05] Elizabeth: But I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful to you for sharing it because, I know there are so many who have had similar experiences and they don't speak out for similar reasons and they've, they've been through something similar and I think it is such a comfort to know that you're not alone or it's a comfort to know that you're not the only one who's experienced that, but not everyone's willing to share.

[00:31:29] And I understand that and I respect it and I would never pressure anyone to share something they're not ready to share or that they don't want to. But I have to say thank you from the bottom of my heart, because I know you sharing your story makes a difference. So I wanna say thank you so much for taking the time to come on here and be with me this morning.

[00:31:49] Thank you for opening up yourself and allowing yourself to be vulnerable because it is scary. And it can be extremely painful, but it won't be for nothing. It,

[00:32:01] Stephanie: Well, thank you.

[00:32:01] Elizabeth: Will make a huge difference. I can already tell you that. So thank you so much. And if there's ever anything that I can do or the foundation can do, please don't hesitate to.. Reach out. And so

[00:32:13] Stephanie: Well, thank you. And thank you for, allowing this and for providing the platform. This is amazing. So I appreciate what you're doing.

[00:32:20] Elizabeth: Thank you. And so for everyone listening today, I hope you feel as just inspired and encouraged to keep your eyes open, to pay attention to what's going on around you, to believe in our survivors who come forward and share their stories to be their friends, to be their support, to be there when they need you. And if you are that person, I hope you also recognize that you are not alone. You are in the best of company and we are all here for each other. So thank you very much for tuning into today's episode.

[00:32:54] And I look forward to having you all again, next time on our next episode next week. Thank you very much. Bye-bye bye.