SHOW NOTES

Visit the Show Up Utah website.

Follow Show Up Utah on Instagram and Twitter.

Listen to Elizabeth’s interview on Abby’s podcast First Lady & Friends.

Follow the Elizabeth Smart Foundation on Instagram and Facebook.

Chat 24/7 with the National Sexual Assault Hotline.

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Elizabeth: You are listening to Smart Talks with the Elizabeth Smart Foundation.

I'm your host, Elizabeth Smart. Smart Talks provides survivors and supporters with tools for healing, a sense of community and empowerment so we can all heal and move forward together.

Welcome to another episode of Smart Talks by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I am Elizabeth, and today, believe it or not, we have Abby Cox, the First Lady of Utah with us today on the podcast. So, hurray! Now, if you don't live in Utah, here is a little bit about her. Abby grew up in Mount Pleasant, Utah.

She has been married to Governor Spencer Cox for 24 years and they have four children. She graduated from Utah State University in special education with an emphasis in early childhood and severe disabilities. She enjoys horses, reading, music, hiking, running, and being active in outdoor activities with her family.

Now that the briefest snapshot of who she is. She is an incredible first lady and she is doing so much good in our state. And it's really exciting to have her on this episode today. So thank you so much for taking the time out to be with me.

[00:01:18] Abby: Absolutely. It is my privilege to be here with you. Thank you.

[00:01:22] Elizabeth: And I have to say that as I'm reading the little tiny bit of your background, I was thinking, oh, I like horses. I like music. I like hiking. I like running. Crazy enough, my brother convinced me it would be a good idea to sign up for the St. George marathon. And I started training just the other morning.

And now I'm thinking. I don't know that that was a good idea.

[00:01:43] Abby: I, I had a friend that got me into running several years ago. It was after, it was probably when Emma Kate, my youngest daughter, my youngest was, she was, I think one about one years old and my friend told me, you sign up for a race, this is how you get into it.

You just sign up for a race and you tell everybody that you're doing it.

[00:02:01] Elizabeth: Oh, well now I've spilled the beans everywhere.

[00:02:03] Abby: Now, now you're spilled the beans.

[00:02:04] Elizabeth: So I will definitely be there,

[00:02:06] Abby: But I've run the St. George marathon one time and is my one and only marathon that I've run. And I actually really enjoyed it. The race itself. Training for it, I will say, is way worse than the actual marathon, because it's always on your mind. And always you're thinking, like, I think the mental part of training for a marathon is probably worse than the physical part, cuz it's just constantly. Okay, what run. Okay, now how many, and how am I gonna do this?

Especially you have little kids. Like, how do you, where am I gonna fit this long run? And if you're traveling okay, I'm in Nashville, where do I find somewhere? And it's July and it's 90 degrees with a hundred percent humidity. Where am I gonna run? Yeah. Anyway, so that, to me, that was my experience. And probably I won't ever do it again.

[00:02:51] Elizabeth: I, I did one. I did one. I went up, I ran the Banff marathon up in Canada, six months after I had my last baby.

[00:02:59] Abby: Oh, wow. See, you're you're more of a pro then.

[00:03:01] Elizabeth: No, I am not. I'm not. I got to mile, like it was between 20 and 22 and I stopped running. That was mistake. Now, mistake number one was actually not continually like popping those little like caffeinated gummies.

[00:03:15] Abby: Yeah.

[00:03:15] Elizabeth: That was mistake number one. Mistake number two was stopping and walking so that I felt that like my insides were going to fall out of me at any moment. That was mistake number two. There were a number of other mistakes, but we won't need to go into that.

But this time around, I thought, okay, if I'm going to do it this time, I'm actually gonna get a coach. And so I actually just talked to a coach this morning. I was like, will you take me on so I can just finish it and not have my insights fall out. Oh.

[00:03:43] Abby: So I didn't know there was such a thing.

[00:03:45] Elizabeth: It is. Yes.

[00:03:46] Abby: Okay. No, good to know.

[00:03:48] Elizabeth: Hopefully I'll finish.

[00:03:49] Abby: You'll do great. It's a good one.

[00:03:51] Elizabeth: But then also, Not just obsessing over commonalities. You study special ed. I did not study special ed, but my sister is actually just finishing her degree in her master's in special ed.

[00:04:05] Abby: Oh, that's fantastic.

[00:04:06] Elizabeth: I hear from her all the time as well. And honestly, my respect has skyrocketed because you have to be an angel to, to take that on. Not that the children are bad, it's just such impossible conditions and circumstances.

[00:04:25] Abby: Yeah. Yeah. I actually when I was doing my student teaching, there were moments where I was like this is really difficult because there's skills that you're trying to teach them that are just, it's a lot of repetitive behaviors.

And it's a lot of really redirecting behavior. And it taught me, I'm so grateful for my training in special education, because you learn how to teach. And so when I was teaching my own children, it was very valuable. I've been a stay at home mom for 23 years, and so it really has been an incredible training tool for parenting.

And now with the work I'm doing, it's, I've been able to just really tap back into that passion. And I just recently got back from the Special Olympics in Orlando, Florida. There's just nothing more joyful. There is absolutely. I mean, you think Disney World is the happiest place on earth.

[00:05:23] Elizabeth: My Costco is typically that place for me, but go.

[00:05:25] Abby: Yes, Costco, Disney, World, whatever. Uh, but when you're watching these really incredible special athletes perform and play together on, on teams and these individual sports, there is really nothing more joyful, and it, I'm so passionate about our friends with different abilities have a way of connecting us as humans.

And when we see our schools participating in unified sports with, unified sports is teams with kids with, and without disabilities on them, it, there is nothing better to create a whole school inclusion atmosphere in every one of our schools, which is what we're trying to do with our initiative.

And it's just, it's amazing. And I love it.

[00:06:11] Elizabeth: That's incredible. Did your base in special education affect your decisions on what initiatives you wanted to take on as first lady?

[00:06:21] Abby: Yeah, for sure. My husband's been in politics a long time and I've been a stay at home mom for, like I said, 23 years when my oldest was born and, when I became first lady, it was, it's really interesting. Nobody gives you a manual. Nobody tells you how to do it. Every, and every, you can talk to 50 different first spouses and they all do it differently. And different states have different organization patterns for it as well.

But it really was something I had to reflect on when we are elected and figure out what am I passionate about? What do I want to do? What, where can I make the most impact? And for me, it was, that's where I went straight to because I have a passion for this. I've talked about it a lot that I grew up with three of my dearest friends had Down syndrome and I went to went all through school with them. And they were in my church congregation. And they were in my community and they just taught me to love unconditionally. They taught me to accept and include and that every person deserves love and belonging. That's where I was immediately drawn to was my passion for people that have all different abilities and unique personalities.

And it really has been such a joy for me to participate and to jump back into this field that I've kind of been away from I mean I, I still been involved in it with my kids' schools and everything, but I it's just been really a joyful time to, to really dive into something that I'm passionate about.

And what we've been doing is expanding the unified sports programs in the state. We started about a year ago with 30 schools participating in unified sports. By this fall, we'll have well over 180 schools participating.

[00:08:10] Elizabeth: Wow.

[00:08:11] Abby: And the feedback is just unbelievable. We have people administrators and teachers and students tell us all the time, this is the best thing our school has ever done to create an environment where everyone feels welcome and they belong.

And I have friends, in the schools where they'll take their friends with disabilities and they're walking down the hall with them and they can't even get down the hall because they are like celebrities. And it's just, it's fun to watch. And it just makes everyone feel like they belong no matter what their story is.

[00:08:44] Elizabeth: And I think that's all, really, anyone wants is to be loved and to feel like you belong.

[00:08:49] Abby: Yeah. So that's exactly right.

[00:08:51] Elizabeth: I think you're, I think you're absolutely right. My mom, she, when we would go to school and if we'd mention, if there was someone who had a special need, whether it was Down syndrome or autism or anything, my mom, she was, almost like a tigress in protection of these children. She'd be like, they are angels straight from heaven. If I ever find out you have done anything to hurt them, like you, you will wish you hadn't been born to me, and if you see someone else hurting them, if you don't stand up for them, you're part of the problem.

Yeah. 'em um, yeah, so I mean, that definitely everything you say I agree with.

[00:09:28] Abby: That's perfect. Yeah. And I think we, I have been an advocate. That's what it taught me is to really be an advocate for people who, who have a different story. And it also extends to anybody. Our initiative is really about getting proximate to people that have a different story than we do, and we learn so much and we develop empathy, which is what our country, our world is lacking in most is we need empathy for somebody that has a different story. You are amazing because you've shared your story, a really difficult story. But because of that, because you share that, you are helping so many people to recognize in themselves the power that, that they have and that they can be an advocate for themselves and other people.

And I, I think that's the power in getting proximate in sharing. With each other our stories and it can be difficult and it can be really hard. And especially if it comes from a place of trauma but I think recognizing that everyone needs some grace and I, I not agree more. We can do that when we look at people as humans and connect with each other.

[00:10:44] Elizabeth: And I think you are absolutely right when you say this world needs more empathy. I don't know anyone who hasn't gone through hardship, or hasn't struggled at some point or another in their life. And you just, you don't know what people are going through on a day to day basis and, we all need a little more kindness and a little more compassion in our lives and a little bit more grace for others and what may seem to be their shortcomings. But honestly, we don't know the journey they've been on.

So I think you're absolutely right in that, which kind of leads me to my next question. You have also included foster care as one of your areas of focus. What brought you, what drew you to foster care?

[00:11:24] Abby: It's really interesting. I had a sister who had infertility and adopted two amazingly beautiful children. And I saw her struggles and things that she went through.

And also I had a friend, a couple of different friends in my area that I lived in neighborhood and just really dear friends in my church congregation who decided to, to foster. And one in particular she fostered, the family they fostered, five sibling group.

[00:11:55] Elizabeth: Wow.

[00:11:55] Abby: At one time. And I remember, she's telling me her story and I'm sitting here thinking about all the different hardships that this, that she's brought into. She didn't need to do this. It wasn't, it was just out of her amazing heart that she did this. She had three children of her own and brought, brought these kids in and was fostering them and then ended up adopting them. All five of them.

[00:12:20] Elizabeth: Wow.

[00:12:20] Abby: And now has a sixth that she's adopted through foster care. And I remember thinking, if anybody in our neighborhood, in our state, in the country, adopted or, had quintuplets, think about it. They get usually like a reality TV show. They get, diapers and formula and, people just wrap around them.

And I thought, I don't think, I mean, she didn't have a baby shower or anything like that. And I thought, why is that? Why is that, that we haven't wrapped around these families that are doing the work of giving love and belonging to our most vulnerable children, the children that have experienced trauma on a very high level. Because if you have not, if you've had to be removed from your home there, you know, leading up to that, there's that trauma major trauma.

[00:13:12] Elizabeth: And I mean, so many as, you know, children who go through foster system experience a lot of trauma within the system.

[00:13:21] Abby: Yeah, yep. Yeah, exactly. From placement to placement or, whatever the situation is. And so to me that was just another way of the overarching, our Initiative is called Show Up. And our overarching goal for this initiative is to create empathy, connection, get proximate to people. So if you think about this also intersects with what we're trying to do. We wanna take care of the most vulnerable children in our state and this is the way we can do it.

We feel like we can spotlight and highlight families that are doing this, wrap around them with the services that they need, create caring communities for each one of our families that, that foster and adopt. And really with a lot of what we're doing is just letting people know that we see them.

There is so much to just telling people that you see them and that you love them and that you recognize the work that they're doing and who they are and how are they, how they are contributing to their communities.

[00:14:19] Elizabeth: Do you feel like progress is being made? Do you feel like change is happening within Utah and the foster system?

[00:14:27] Abby: I do. We work really closely with our DCFS, our Department of Family and Children's Services. And we also work really closely with our several nonprofits in the state. Utah Foster Care, Raise The Future, utah Kids Belong some, a lot of these organizations that do their work. But what we can do is we can come in and showing a spotlight on what they're doing, but also, we work very closely with our state agency and we are discussing with them issues and problems. And it's interesting cuz people because we're out in the community and we're actually talking to families they are a little more open with us than they would be maybe to a case worker or DCFS officials.

They, somehow, sometimes we can be a little bit of a conduit to say this, they, this problem's going on. And I've had my friends that I mentioned that have fostered. I ask them regularly, tell me what we can do. Tell me what's missing. Tell me what you think needs to happen because you're the ones on the front lines.

You're the one that's doing this work. Tell me how we can help. And through that feedback, we have talked to our state agencies. They are constantly trying to do better. I think they, they sometimes get a bad rap. Sometimes they, oh, there are problems and there's abuses in the system. And we hear about that. But this is a human endeavor and it's the most emotional human endeavor that we have. Each case is not gonna be the same. Every child and every situation and every family's gonna be different. We do have guiding principles of reunification because we know that trauma is significantly reduced if we can actually reunify those families. So we work on both ends. Yes, I do think there is progress being made. Obviously we will continue to always use data to drive good policies, but we will also use our hearts to connect with families to make sure that they have what they need.

[00:16:28] Elizabeth: What would you say is the biggest component lacking right now? Is it a shortage of families willing to take children? Cuz the children, they don't know them. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Would you say, is that the biggest shortage or what would you say is the biggest gap right now?

[00:16:45] Abby: The first thing I will say is that we have incredible families that are willing to foster and that's wonderful. Where there's a gap is in people that will take children over the age of nine, that they will take people, children that have severe physical, mental, or emotional challenges, sibling groups, but also we desperately need people that are ethnically diverse. Because what we're seeing is that when you remove a child, there's already, the minute you do, I mean, there's trauma leading up to that, obviously,

[00:17:22] Elizabeth: Mm-hmm

[00:17:23] Abby: Or they wouldn't have to be removed, but once that removal takes place, that is another layer of trauma. And then if you place them. In a place where they do not ha have their same language. If they do not have the same culture. If they do not have that same community, then the trauma is even layered even further.

So what we really need is diverse families. We need Latino families. We need families of color. We need LGBTQ safe families. There are about 30% of our children that are in foster care, identify as LGBTQ. And if, again, think about scent, putting them in a place that's not safe in that way. That's not accepting of that.

We need families that will take them and accept them and help them through this trauma that doesn't make the trauma worse. We need sort of those diverse type families. You can be single. You can be, the people don't know this, but you can be a single person and foster. You can be LGBTQ, you just have to be married, is the only stipulation.

And so we need all diverse kinds of families so that we can meet the needs of our diverse children in the system. And you talked about children, are there enough homes? The group that we're focused on is this waiting children. And they are children who have had their parents' parental rights terminated. There is gonna be no reunification. And these are usually again, kids that are older than nine in a sibling group. Have these have, some emotional, physical, uh, mental challenges. They are at risk of aging out of the system without a family. And on average, we have about 150 children who age out of the system each year without a family.

What we need is people that are willing to adopt those children. And if you can connect with one of these children, or even if you can be a mentor, or be a part of that child's caring community. Think about this. We both come from families that are very loving, very kind.

 If you need something, you can probably count on two hands, 10 hands. How many adults in your life you had as a child that you could have gone to. That you could have asked for help. We have of these 150, think about this. There was a, one of a child that told us that they were trying to do an application for college and for an emergency contact, they put down 9 1 1 because there was literally no other adult in their life that they could call.

[00:20:04] Elizabeth: Wow.

[00:20:05] Abby: And so we need to wrap around these children. They're the most at risk for drug abuse. They're at most at risk for sexual assault. They're most at risk for being trafficked. They are at most risk for teen pregnancy and drug addiction and incarceration. And so if you think about it, these are literally the most vulnerable people that we have in our state, and we need to wrap around them and it just takes one caring adult in their life to advocate for them. And so those are kind of where we're focusing a lot of our energy in this initiative.

[00:20:43] Elizabeth: I I'm always asked, oh, what's your favorite state? If you've been to them all, what's your favorite state? And I'm always like, Utah's my favorite state. If it wasn't, I wouldn't live here. And I feel like, I mean, Utah is so wonderful. It's such an incredible state to be from. There's so much natural beauty, but the people I feel like are genuinely good caring people. Do you find that it's just a lack of knowledge why so many children are aging out without a family? Because I feel like There, shouldn't be any, yes. I mean, hearing that some poor child put down 9 1 1 as their emergency contact. That's terrible. That's heartbreaking. Yeah.

[00:21:22] Abby: I think you're exactly right. It is the awareness piece. We feel like it is. We feel, I feel like you, I feel like Utah is uniquely positioned to flip that. I think as we were putting these structures in place to really create these care communities and really put a spotlight on the issue of children needing homes, I really do believe in my heart that Utahns are gonna step up when they know that there's a need, they step up, they have always done so. I really believe right now that they will do this, our goal in our initiative is to flip that so that we have families waiting for children rather than the other way around. And we truly believe through this advocacy and this awareness campaign that we can do that in the state of Utah.

I'm not saying that other states can't do this. I'm saying we're gonna be the first and we're gonna show them how to do it. So they'll do it.

[00:22:16] Elizabeth: No one who listens to you speak would deny like your passion and your love for. Honestly children across the board. But outside of like your personal love and passion for it.

Do you feel that it is a responsibility of elected officials to take this cause on?

[00:22:38] Abby: Oh, absolutely. I, and I think all the causes that we have, we are working we've mentioned unified sports. We've mentioned foster care. One of the other big areas that we're working on our focus area, is around teacher wellness, educator wellness, and teaching teachers emotional intelligence skills and these durable skills so that they can teach them to their students cuz teachers teach. So we know we need to take care of our educators first. We need to help the helpers. And so I am very passionate about this because this is another way for us to really inspire legislation around our education initiatives. We passed this last year, a record number funding for education and a record number of education bills related to compensation.

And if we take, things we learned in foster care, we take things we learn in, in unified sports and Special Olympics. And we take the things that we're learning from educators, and we involve the policy makers. Just like you did with your experience and your foundation, you took what you learned, you took what your experiences were and said, how can we then turn this into policy?

And I'm not a policymaker. I feel like my job is really quite apolitical and it, it really is about serving the people of this state in the best ways that I know how, especially the most vulnerable. But there is this opportunity also to share what we know with policy makers so that we can truly make changes and make the state better.

[00:24:19] Elizabeth: I think you're doing a fantastic job. Not that my thoughts go very far, but I think you're doing fantastic. And I'm certainly proud to have you as my First Lady, as someone that I can look to and know that you're doing your best and you're trying your hardest to make Utah even greater place to live.

[00:24:37] Abby: Thank you.

[00:24:37] Elizabeth: So on a little bit of a, a lighter note what are some of your favorite parts of being First Lady and also, out of, I don't know, maybe morbid curiosity, what were your thoughts when your husband came home and said, I think I'd like to run for governor?

[00:24:56] Abby: Yeah, no. Uh, so yeah, I the best parts of being the First Lady of the state of Utah is really on a selfish level, I really do get to do what I'm passionate. I mean, who gets to do that? Who gets to choose, like, what am I passionate about and just go do it? And really have an incredible team with me making this stuff happen. Being able to put a spotlight on the things and the people that are doing just incredible work.

I think for me, it's been getting to know people, meeting people that, that inspire me. From janitor at a middle school who inspired a whole movement around a period project to, to get period products into schools to people like you who have spent your time in the spotlight advocating for just incredible change in our country.

It both ends of the spectrum. People that are just regular people, doing incredible things, as well as people in the spotlight that are making a difference. I think that's my favorite thing is to be able to get to know people in that way.

As far as when my husband, it didn't maybe happen exactly like that. Um, Spencer has been in politics and I say he has, but it really has been a team effort. We, like I said my bio is, needs to be updated. I'm 25 years now that we've been married and..

Congratulations.

Thank you.

[00:26:24] Elizabeth: Quarter of a century. That's a big deal.

[00:26:25] Abby: That's a, that was a big milestone. But we've been, we've just been best friends for a really long time. We were best friends. We met in high school, so we dated in high school. We're high school sweethearts. We've been buds for a really long time. And so we've always done things together. I remember there was a time when, he's like, oh my buddies from law school, we're gonna go golfing.

And I'm like, mm, I think I'll come and I think I'm learning how to golf now. So it's just been one of those. Things that we've al, always done together, even though we've had separate roles. Um, I have been at home with a stay at home mom with the children, but I've also been very involved in what he's done and these decisions were definitely made together.

He was a Lieutenant Governor for almost eight years , before he, we ran for governor and the decision to run for governor was a really difficult one because there were no blinders on as to what the job was and how difficult it is. Also, campaigning is one of the most grueling, difficult, horrific experiences.

And I know why a lot of good people don't wanna do it. And it's sad that it's that way. But also through the campaign, we met incredible people. But the decision was do we feel like this is something we're supposed to do? And do we feel like we can make a difference if we do this? And can we campaign in a different way, that's not divisive? That's not negative? That doesn't tear people down? That actually builds up our community? The reason we said yes is cuz we said yes to all those things. We did feel like we could make a difference. We did feel like we could show a different way of campaigning, whether we won or not.

We could campaign in a different way. And if you're not familiar with our campaign, you can look, we did an ad with our opponent in the fall before the election just talking to people about being decent, being kind, being compassionate, having empathy. And we vowed not to be negative.

And we kept that promise. We never, ever were negative in our campaign. And we wanted to be proud of the work we did in the campaign. Some people think it's a means to an end and it doesn't matter how you get there and it, to us, it did matter. It matters continually how we do this job and how we talk about people and to people.

And so for us, it was definitely a joint decision. And one that we made reluctantly, cuz we knew how difficult it would be. Now. I say we knew. I, I should say, we thought we knew because we then ended up campaigning in a pandemic and the country and the state got even more divided than we had ever been before.

And it was disheartening in a lot of ways to see that, but also, we have had experiences where we learn about good, amazing people of Utah. We've seen this come, people come together with the Ukraine situation. People are good. People are flocking to our initiative because they are good and they want to do good.

And we need to get that exhausted majority to be a little bit more loud so that we can drown out the negative voices, but we're proud of what we accomplished in the campaign. And we're so humbled by the people that are stepping up to help.

[00:29:55] Elizabeth: Well, thank you so much. I have just loved listening to you and hearing your passion and your love for each of these causes and initiatives that you're behind.

I have so much respect for, I had respect for you before I came in here. Before we sat down today, but I feel like it's just grown exponentially and I feel like anyone who listens to this would feel the same way. And so with that in thought I would want to ask, are you on social media?

Do you have a website where if people want to learn more, that they can come and. Find you , and follow you?

[00:30:34] Abby: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for mentioning that. We, you can find me personally, abby Palmer Cox on that's my personal one on Instagram and I can't remember what my Twitter is, but yeah, it's Abby Cox somewhere.

And then our Show Up initiative, our Instagram is Show Up Utah on Instagram and Twitter. And you can go to our website. We have an amazing website where you can show up to, you can volunteer. We have incredible opportunities with our teacher conference, with our service initiatives.

Anything you wanna get involved in, it's showuputah.org and we'd love to have you visit.

[00:31:14] Elizabeth: All right. Well, thank you so much. And hopefully you called all that. So be sure to follow her on Instagram. And like she said, search for her on Twitter. I'm sure you'll find her. But also be sure to go to her website and follow along and see how you can show up and get involved and learn more about what she's doing, because she's amazing.

And I'm proud to have her as a first lady, as I said earlier. And so with that being said, I wanna say thank you so much for tuning in. Please be sure to rate us, to subscribe to us, to leave us a comment. And if there's something that you're interested in hearing more about, please reach out to us and let us know.

So that being said, thank you. And I'll see you next week.