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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Elizabeth Smart: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Smart Talks by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I am Elizabeth Smart, and today I have Barbi Kemp with me. And Barbi is, she is a survivor of the kind of nightmare that we all pray never happens to any of us, of us or anyone that we know, but she survived. And she has an incredibly powerful story that I feel so lucky to be able to have her share with us today. So thank you so much Barbi for joining me today. 

[00:01:02] Barbi Kemp: Thank you, Elizabeth, for having me. I truly appreciate your time. 

[00:01:05] Elizabeth Smart: Just beginning, I mean, do you mind just kind of talking about your childhood, how kind of about the environment that you grew up in and how things kind of unfolded in your life? 

[00:01:20] Barbi Kemp: Yeah, you bet. I grew up in a small town in Northwest Utah.

It is a, or was, a farming town that has since grown into more of a city-like place. So I grew up on a farm and my mom is a dancer and grew up in a dance studio. So I was able to have kind of the best of both worlds in that I got to spend the time I wasn't in the studio on a farm. So that was a lot of fun growing up.

Growing up, I have two sisters and two brothers. I am the second to youngest. A lot of times when we were kids, my mom is from the east coast and often we would have family come and live with us, just to sometimes help with the five kids with both parents working. And, they just were oftentimes our babysitters.

And you think that family is safe for your kids to be babysat by. So we had my mom's, some of my mom's family come and live with us, it was an aunt and uncle and a cousin, come and live with us for some time. I was about six and seven years old and the proof we have based off of age is photos, and actually my childhood journals. So they stayed with us for a couple of years. And in that time, my uncle, who is actually not an uncle anymore. My aunt divorced him a long time ago. At the time he was an uncle. So I'm actually not going to refer to him as that, just because I do respect that, that term. And he's not somebody that I respect. So I refer to him as just "him" or "the guy" just to keep "uncle" out of it. 

But he, in the time that he lived with us, sexually abused me and it was something that I didn't know was a thing. I didn't know about sexual abuse. I didn't know good touch, bad touch. I didn't know what pornography was. I didn't know that you could say no. I didn't know any of those things that I know now. And so I just didn't say anything. I didn't know it was what he was doing was bad. I thought I was bad. I didn't know what he was doing was bad. And so I just never said anything.

He would, pedophiles are very calculated and precise in the planning of who their victim is going to be. And I was the perfect age for him at the time. I was passive and a people pleaser and peacekeeper. So I didn't, I was just the perfect target for him. So he would, he just targeted me and would get me in a situations where I would be alone with him for him to hurt me.

[00:04:02] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, I think so many of us have been kind of what you described about your childhood and who you are, I mean, that just, I mean, honestly that reminds me of me. I mean, even by the time I was 14. I mean, yes, I knew what pornography was by then, but I mean, I, like, I still was so very innocent and I mean, I just think, and even going back younger and younger, like that could have, that could have been me. That could be my little girl right now. I mean, my, my oldest is six right now and you know, she wants to have friends and she's very kind and very helpful. And I mean, I always like, please never let that be her.

 And I'm always talking to her and I'm like, "this is not okay. What do you do if this happens? What do you do if this happens? You know, who do you talk to? Who's a safe person?" Like, like we always have these kinds of conversations. I mean, I think you've described so many of us. I mean, how did you finally learn or recognize that what he was doing was not okay.

[00:05:12] Barbi Kemp: Well, a big question is when did they leave? And I honestly thought he never was going to leave because in his presence, I always was scared because I knew that what he did to me hurt. I just didn't know that it was wrong. So I always, a lot of times I tried to hide from him, but he would always find me.

And I just think that the talking to your kids is so important. And I just want to really emphasize that back in the eighties, when this was happening to me, there was no conversation about sexual abuse, about pornography, about good touch, bad touch as a society. We taught kids to do what adults told us to do. So that's what I did. I didn't want to get in trouble. I didn't want to, I didn't want him to hurt my sisters. So by him hurting me, I knew he wasn't hurting them. But I just didn't know what was wrong. I was just doing, as I was told by an adult, because that's what we were taught to do back then. So talking to our kids now that there is dialogue and words and conversation we can have with our kids, which is so incredibly important.

So you ask how I knew it was wrong. So I couldn't wait for the day that he left our home and I remember the day like it was yesterday because once I did come forward, all of my siblings were questioned whether or not he hurt them too. And the only thing that we do remember, because my little sister and myself and my brother just older than me, we were babysat by them.

And we were, I was seven. My brother was eight and my little sister would have been at about five. And we were kind of, you know, we were wild children. Those are wild, those are very energetic ages. And we were running in and out of the house. It was summer. And so we were in and out of the house and he had the radio on, and my brother just older than me was turning the radio on and off and it bothered him.

And so I just remember he picked my brother up by his ankle, lifted him up, so his hands were just dangling and, so he's holding him up with his right hand and took his belt off with his left hand and just started whipping my brother. My brother at first thought it was a playful kind of gesture. When in reality he was angry. So then my sister and myself and my brother, we were kicked out of the house. My brother was now bleeding. And for me, I knew that my parents would not allow him to stay in our home, seeing what he had just done to my brother. Because my parents, they're phenomenal. They're good people who didn't know they were inviting a pedophile into their home. So I knew that seeing what he had done to my brother was the end of them living with us. And so he knew he was in trouble, not my brother, but the guy knew he was in trouble and he stole my dad's truck and drove away.

So that just, I just remember it being super chaotic. And, but I knew that he wouldn't be living in our home anymore.

[00:08:16] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, yeah. Well, I mean, thank goodness he got out of your house. That's just like, I just can't imagine like anyone picking up my little son and my little son is very energetic. I can't, I just can't like, I can't physically imagine that. That's terrible. So after he left how quickly did you come forward and talk about what happened to you? Because you were still very young.

[00:08:45] Barbi Kemp: Yeah. So I was seven when they were kicked out of our home and they actually didn't leave Utah. They stayed in Utah and moved into an apartment just a few miles away. So for me the abuse didn't stop, but it wasn't every day. So so it stopped when they moved back to the east coast. And that's when my aunt divorced him shortly after. 

So I didn't come forward just because I didn't know what he was doing was wrong. I didn't come forward until I was well, when I was 13, is when I realized. I was in a health class in the seventh grade and was listening to a guest teacher in this class who came and talked to the class about good touch, bad touch, and just described exactly what I had gone through as being sexual abuse.

I mean, and so that's when I realized, oh my goodness. What he did to me was really bad. So I, I just, I went home and didn't tell anybody, because I didn't know how, but I also felt like, well, I must've done something to have him choose me to do that to. It had to have been something I did. So then I didn't want people to think that I was bad.

So I, I kept it quiet for another, for a couple of years. And I didn't realize until I was 14, just because there was no conversation back then about any type of sexual violence. It was kind of shunned and don't under the rug. You just, you just never talked about it anymore. Even if you came forward, it was still just, oh, well just get over it. You're going to be okay. It was, "it wasn't that bad" kind of thing. 

And, and so I, I didn't want that because I knew it was "that bad" when I was 13. I didn't want people to think I was bad. So I just kept it quiet. And then the same guest came when I was in the eighth grade in when I was 14 to the, to my health class and talked about pornography.

Because it had just started to become kind of an epidemic back then. And that's when I realized that the videos and magazine photos that he showed me and made me act out was pornography. So that's when I realized it was really bad, what he did was really bad. So I I just didn't know how or who or when, or who would believe me.

So I just kept it quiet for about another, almost two years. I was almost 16 when I, I was 15, but almost 16 when I told my told another teacher about the abuse.

[00:11:21] Elizabeth Smart: How did you decide what teacher to tell or who to tell? Do you remember? 

[00:11:26] Barbi Kemp: Yeah, I do. I remember I, I think most victims who are getting ready to tell somebody kind of almost interview the person silently, you know. I had watched this teacher, so I was in a religion class in school. And I had watched my teacher for the entire, I told him, it was March, I believe it was March when I told, told him. And I had just watched him from the first day of school. There was something about him that just illuminated goodness. And so I just watched him all year and made the decision probably in December that he was who I was going to tell. I just didn't know how to approach that. And I wasn't sure that he would believe me. So I knew I could trust him, but I just wasn't sure what he would do with what I was going to tell him. And so I think that's the hardest part with coming forward is you're telling somebody something so intimate about yourself and you have to rely on their reaction to what you're telling them.

And so I just had kind of studied him in his behavior and personality and him and I got along really well. He, like, he noticed if I wasn't in class one day and would reach out and see if I was okay. He just was just a good guy. So I just decided that he was the person that I was going to tell.

I just wasn't sure how to approach that. And so he he just said one day that, in class, he just said, "I feel like a lot of you are carrying some pretty hard things, some big burdens. I want to help you out, so we're going to do this game and you can put questions in this box." And so I just decided that is the perfect way for me to tell somebody, because he's not going to know it's me. I can just, he can tell me what to do after once he reads my question, he can answer the question and tell me what to do after. And I didn't realize that by law, telling a teacher meant going to authorities. So that kind of helped the road to court, that helped with that. It's not something I ever wanted to do, but because I told a teacher, it was by law something that had to happen. But I do think my parents would have taken it to the law, even if I hadn't told a teacher first. 

[00:13:45] Elizabeth Smart: So when he saw what you wrote, how did he respond or did he ask like you to come meet with him or...

[00:13:55] Barbi Kemp: No, so what happened was, the class was every other day, so I didn't want to write my question during class, because I didn't want anybody to see me write it. And I didn't want anybody to recognize my handwriting. So I took one of the papers that he had handed out to the class and I brought it home and I wrote the letter.

I tried to disguise my handwriting by writing the letter with my, I'm right-handed, and so I wrote it with my left hand in cursive, hoping that it would disguise the writing enough. I'm surprised he could even read it, but he read the question. It actually was one of the first questions that he pulled out of the box.

I mean, cause you think there's 35 kids in a class. We have an hour class. I didn't actually think he would get to my question. I just, for me it was just writing it down and then giving it to somebody else with the possibility of them not even seeing it felt like enough. And so he did pull it out. It was one of the very first questions and his reaction was he didn't read it out loud at first, and then he read it out loud and then he just got silent and all he said was "whoever this is, I can help you."

So he didn't make it a big deal. He didn't react dramatically. He just, he just let me know that he cared with the way that he reacted. And then a few days later he came up to me and just, he just knew it was me. And he helped me. He helped me with my parents. So I didn't have to tell him, I don't remember telling him that it was me.

But honestly it was such a, I was so scared in telling anybody because of the threats that the uncle made that I honestly thought he would fulfill. But I didn't, I didn't, I was just so scared that I don't remember like the process or how many days went by. I just know that he came up to me and he just knew it was me.

So it probably was my behavior. I was kind of shaking in class, cause I knew that somebody knows he's going to come and now the uncle's going to come and he's going to kill me. You know? So I just, I knew he was gonna, in my mind, 15 years old, I knew that the threats he had made were actually going to happen. So I just was extremely scared. 

[00:16:22] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, and I think your reaction is probably so much more common than any of us even know, or even more than any of the data that has been collected has ever shown, because there are so many people who don't come forward and who are scared. 

And even looking back into my own story, I mean, Like, I get question all the time, like, "oh, you were out in public. Why didn't you scream? I just can't understand. There were people there. Why didn't you yell? Why didn't you run away? You had a chance to escape" and until you're really in that situation yourself, you just really don't have any idea. It's not just as easy as taking a couple steps or opening your mouth.

I mean, you really feel like these threats that you've been living with are real and that he will carry them out. I mean, I like, I remember feeling like my captors were invincible. I mean, that anything that they threatened me with, they would follow through with, I mean, and now as an adult and, you know, having had some more experience, it's more understanding along the way.

It's easy to look back now and be like, oh, they wouldn't have just done that right in front of a police officer as he was standing right next to you. 

[00:17:39] Barbi Kemp: But yeah, but you don't know that because you seen what they're capable of. You've seen behind closed doors, what they're capable of doing. So it is so easy to believe that the threats that they've made they're going to do, because you've seen how the things they're willing to do.

I mean, there were times that, that he would sexually abused me in my parents' basement with my parents upstairs. I mean, he didn't care who was there. He was just so calculated and he knew when the rest of the family was distracted just enough that nobody would notice if I wasn't there. So they're just so calculated and manipulative and I mean...

[00:18:19] Elizabeth Smart: I mean situations like those would make them seem even more powerful than when they know that, you know, like your parents are in the home or when they're just right upstairs. I mean, that would just kind of add to that feeling of invincibility. 

[00:18:33] Barbi Kemp: Yeah. And they got away with it, you know? So yeah. 

[00:18:37] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, I can understand that feeling completely. I mean, I had the same, the very same feeling. So when your parents finally found out what was their reaction? 

[00:18:51] Barbi Kemp: So my mom came and picked me up from school. And the nice thing about this teacher that I told is he let me be in control of the timing of telling my parents. He didn't just call them up one day and tell them and I was blindsided with the telling. He, he let me choose the day. So I knew when my mom picked me up that day that he had called her. And I could tell just by the look in her eyes that she was worried. So I went and got in the car and she always liked to run errands after school. And we always would, you know, go get a treat or a snack or something.

And so we went and did that and she just looked at me and said, your teacher called. He said, somebody hurt you. I need you to tell me who it was. And I couldn't. I literally could not tell my mom who it was. So she was very wise and just started saying names. And the uncle at the time was the second person that she had guessed.

So her reaction was, she was silent. She, I, she didn't overreact. She didn't really say anything. She didn't ask for any details. She just said, "was it this guy?" I said, "yes." And she said, "did he sexually abuse you?" And I said, "yes." And we went home for, we went home for maybe 30 minutes. My mom made a few phone calls.

I went to my room and then we went straight to the police. So she reacts, she was very calm. My dad, I don't remember my dad being with us the first time we went to the police, but he came with us. Some of the other times, I don't even know how my dad reacted when my mom first told him because I was not there, but he never, they never asked for details.

Never have I, in fact, we've still, I'm still never, thankfully have had to tell them everything that he did to me. 

[00:20:52] Elizabeth Smart: Is that something that you would like to talk to them about at one point in your life? Or you're just happy to not have them know everything. 

[00:21:04] Barbi Kemp: I just don't see the importance of the heartache that would cause them. I've actually never really told anybody everything just because I feel like there's really no need in that.

Because of the statute of limitations back in the, in the eighties, realistically he should not have been convicted of anything because the law protected him. But because of the gravity of the one instance that I wrote down that he did, he was arrested and he did spend time in jail. So I have never actually given details of everything because I don't really see, I don't see the need. I've written it all down in journals and papers, so it's out of me, but I just don't see, I don't see the need in causing my parents that much heartache when they did nothing wrong.

[00:21:55] Elizabeth Smart: Is that something that if it was open to press charges against him again, that you would ever consider doing? 

[00:22:05] Barbi Kemp: A one of the hardest parts about about this whole process for me and the healing is the fact that he is out of jail and he is running free. And there's no doubt in my mind that he's hurting other people.

There is nothing that because of the laws, there is nothing that I can, I have done everything I can legally to protect the people around him. He's on the sex offender, the registry, but to me that doesn't really do a whole lot. You have to check the registry in order to know who's around you and he's on that for life.

But honestly, I've done everything I can legally to protect the people around him. So if somebody came to me, knowing that I am a survivor of, of what he did to me and the laws didn't protect him. And by me disclosing everything meant that he spent a life in prison I would, at that point disclose everything.

[00:23:01] Elizabeth Smart: How did you feel like testifying because you did, you did testify, right? 

[00:23:09] Barbi Kemp: So because of the statute of limitations, there was no jury trial, but there was there was a couple of days in court. So I was, because of the threats that I really felt like was going to happen, I never had to stand in front of him face-to-face, but I was in court. I talked to to the judge and to, to my attorney. But I was behind what to me, looked like a window, and to the court looked like a mirror. I was standing there, so I saw him at the court, but he never saw me. I just never wanted him to see, he remembered me as a seven year old little girl.

He didn't know what I looked like as a, so it took two years to get from the time I told my parents to court, he didn't know what I looked like as a 17 year old now woman or lady, I wasn't a little girl anymore. So I just didn't want him to see me and what I looked like then. So I did testify, but I didn't have like a jury trial because the statute of limitations protected him from that, 

[00:24:13] Elizabeth Smart: Regardless of whether a jury was there or not, I mean, it's incredibly brave what you did. 

[00:24:20] Barbi Kemp: Thank you. 

[00:24:21] Elizabeth Smart: After the trial, everything was done and over with, did you, did it bring you a sense of peace or did it bring you a sense of some form of justice? 

[00:24:35] Barbi Kemp: Honestly, the, the court wasn't for me, I didn't feel like the court helped me at all because I had had time to kind of feel the feelings of what a victim of sexual abuse feels, and it's a dark place to be, especially on your own. So no, I don't think the, the court brought any peace to me because I didn't feel like there was any justice in his sentence. It's a legal system. It's, there's no justice in it for the, for the victim.

I don't think.

[00:25:07] Elizabeth Smart: Couldn't agree more.. Couldn't agree more with that. 

[00:25:11] Barbi Kemp: I know. I feel like my parents, especially my mom, my mom walked straight up to him in that court, was maybe six inches from him, and just she looked him right in the eye and talked straight to him. And I feel like for her, she wanted him to know that she knew what he did and she was not about to let him get away with it.

[00:25:33] Elizabeth Smart: So maybe it was more helpful to her than even you,

[00:25:36] Barbi Kemp: I think yeah. I mean, I, I could have done without the court, but my parents really, they wanted me to know that they believed me. And I think for them taking it straight to the police was their way of saying to me, "Barbi, we believe what you're saying, and we're going to do everything we can to protect you."

And I feel like this deep responsibility to protect my parents in that they really did nothing wrong. They, they did not know that he was a pedophile. The thing about pedophiles is they don't look any different than normal people. So there's not, there's no, there's no way to know what a pedophile looks like.

It's their behavior and their actions that are shameful. And they, I just feel like this deep responsibility to protect them in that they, they literally had no idea that he was doing to me what he was doing, because he was so manipulative and secretive and sneaky and he would do things, he was so, so good at the timing at what he did, that there was no way for my parents or my siblings to know that I was isolated with him.

[00:26:43] Elizabeth Smart: Well, I mean, just talking to you right now, you speak very articulately about it. You know, a lot of, a lot of survivors when I speak to them, they get, they get very emotional about it. And it's quite difficult for them, which, I mean, there's, there is no judgment on my part because these are the worst moments of, of people's lives.

I mean, it, it almost begs the question, you know, like how, how can you not be emotional? But I also understand, like I've spoken about my story so much that I don't, the parts that I do tell I don't get emotional about, unless, unless like my parents or my family are sitting in the audience and then I usually tend to get a little bit emotional.

But what helped you afterwards? I mean, because you do seem like youare very healthy. You do seem like you're very strong. Like you do seem like you're in a very good place now. What, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, but what do you feel like has helped you get there? 

[00:27:49] Barbi Kemp: I am in a good place right now. I have a wonderful husband and five beautiful children.

I think what helped me the most in the healing, I mean the healing it's, it's evolving. It's not something that comes overnight a lot of time, it takes courage and patience in yourself. So I think that just knowing that my parents and my siblings and anybody that I spoke to believed me, the only people that ever made me feel like in the process of getting from telling my parents to court was, was the defense.

They were the only ones who ever made me feel like I was exaggerating what, had happened and their defense was, "she waited so many years to tell how on earth could she remember? And why didn't you say something sooner?" And, and when people say stuff like that to me, I just, it almost makes me feel a sense of gratitude for them in that if they are saying something so insensitive, that means they haven't felt the heartache that I have felt in going through what I went through.

So if they're going to say something like there's no way she couldn't remember, she was only six and seven years old. There's really no way I could forget. So I just think that well, great. I'm glad that you feel like somebody could forget something so terrible. But some things, like you said, some things you just don't forget.

[00:29:16] Elizabeth Smart: Well, I mean, I think that shows what a very pure of heart you have, because I think I'd be on the other end and be like, "excuse me, have you, have you experienced this? Like how dare you, how you, I think you need to go through some sensitivity training."

[00:29:30] Barbi Kemp: You have proven to be on the compassionate side of things, Elizabeth.

And I know that you've gotten questions to where it's, where it feels a lot like the victim blaming and, I just feel like anyone that is willing to blame a victim for any type of sexual violence clearly have not been through it. And what they need to understand is the shame a victim feels is crippling.

It is the kind of pain that I hope that people don't feel, but I know people do feel. And what people need to understand is that the shame should only come to the pedophile or the perpetrator because. Ultimately, the only thing that was wrong is them. 

[00:30:16] Elizabeth Smart: I couldn't agree more. I mean, you said it exactly perfectly, and I hope that that anyone who listens to this podcast, hears that. Hears that right now that if you've been raped, if you've been abused, you should not feel shame.

The only person who should feel shame is the perpetrator. And it doesn't matter if it starts off consensually initially, as soon as you say no, as soon as you begin to change your mind and they keep going and they take it too far, that's, that's when everything changes, you should not feel shame for that.

[00:30:53] Barbi Kemp: And the problem with consent that I, that I think is, there, you can only give consent if no is an option for me know, isn't an option. If I said no to him, it got a little bit sneakier. If I got, if I cried, he would tell me to be quiet or tell me he would go hurt my little sister. You can only give consent if no is an option.

And a lot of times you can't give, give consent to something if you don't know what it is. So if these have gone a little too far and you're saying no, now it's because you're no longer comfortable with what's happening. So you can only consent. Only comes if... 

[00:31:31] Elizabeth Smart: If you're a child you can't give consent period.

[00:31:34] Barbi Kemp: Absolutely. That is absolutely correct. And the, one of the things that made my story. Or when I told my parents the things that I was disclosing are things that I shouldn't know about sex. I shouldn't know, as a six year old that you know, males, that they grow when they're turned on. You know, I shouldn't, there's just things that I shouldn't have known as a six and seven year old that I knew.

And so that was a lot of the telling in, in my truth was I shouldn't have known a lot of the things about sex that I knew. 

[00:32:09] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, that is, yes, that is a very good point. And I mean, that would be one of the things that I feel like it would be as an adult, if a child came to me and started telling me those things, that would be a lot harder for me to overlook, that would make it even harder.

I mean, I hope I would never doubt them. I always hope my first reaction is to always believe every survivor that comes forward. 

[00:32:32] Barbi Kemp: Well, I feel like you, you do believe every survivor that comes forward and that is such a, your campaign of We Believe You is such a telling in that you do believe anyone that comes from.

[00:32:42] Elizabeth Smart: And when I hope, I mean, yes, thank you. That's why we have it because I feel like more people, I mean, the numbers of survivors that do finally come forward, you will always be safer believing them than not. And if they're lying, it will come to light. But what if they weren't lying, and you know, you, you shredded them?

I mean, you shredded someone who was already in an unimaginable amount of pain, like isn't it always better to err on the side of belief to err on the side of kindness and compassion rather than doubt and mistrust? 

[00:33:26] Barbi Kemp: Not only that, but a survivor that talks to somebody and does tell you likely were a lot like I was and have been studying your behavior for maybe up to a year before they're willing to trust you with their story. And if you then say you do not believe them, what does that do to them? They have...

[00:33:47] Elizabeth Smart: They may never tell anyone ever again. 

[00:33:49] Barbi Kemp: Never, never, and that could be detrimental for them. So if a survivor trusts you enough to tell them you just listen to them. You don't try to fix them. You don't try to you don't ask questions. You just listen because they're experienced. You might be the first person that they have chosen to tell you don't know. And if you don't believe them, that's just, I just know for me, if my teacher would have not believed me and my parents wouldn't have believed me or shoved it under the rug and said, yeah, I believe you, but don't talk about it anymore because we don't want to ruin our reputation as a family, because realistically me coming forward with a story, my family isn't a family that you would ever think sexual abuse would happen in it.

I mean, we were successful and all of the five kids, super talented and smart and did well in school. My mom was well-known around the town we lived in and owned this dance studio. I mean, me coming forward they weren't worried about the family's reputation. They were worried about making sure that I was okay.

And making sure that he didn't do anything, other than what he did to my brother, to anyone else.

[00:34:58] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, I think you've summed everything up so perfectly and how we need to take care of our victims of how we need to take care of our survivors, how we need to really take a closer look at ourselves and how we respond to people and how, I mean, even just in our, not even necessarily when someone's disclosing to us, but just in our day-to-day lives.

Are we someone that a victim could trust? Are we someone that a survivor could feel safe with? 

[00:35:29] Barbi Kemp: And if you are hold onto that, because that is something so special. If somebody trusts you with their story, that is something so valuable in a characteristic that you hold that hold onto that trust from that person, because that is such a valuable thing that they are willing to give you.

I just think the world needs to see what survival does look like, and unfortunately, so many people are willing to, to look the other way and pretend like it doesn't happen and claim that it could never happen to them or their kids, when in reality statistics prove it happens to one in three, one in four girls, statistically proves that it could be any of our children.

So I just think we need to show what survival looks like for people who maybe haven't spoken up yet and can see that survival can be a room full of strong, and courageous, and capable, successful women. And that could be them too. 

[00:36:29] Elizabeth Smart: Absolutely. Well, I want to say thank you Barbie so much for coming on today for sharing your story for sharing, I mean, your soul with us. Thank you so much. I just admire you. I admire you to no end. And I feel like this is gonna make a difference to a lot of people, because at the foundation we do constantly have people reaching out to us, asking for help feeling like they're alone, feeling like nobody believes them and they don't know where else to turn.

And so I truly, 100% have no doubts that this episode will make an impact and it will absolutely make a difference. So thank you so much for your time. 

[00:37:12] Barbi Kemp: Oh, thank you, Elizabeth. I just feel like staying silent any more was just on allowing people to not only get to know me, but it, wasn't not creating a safe place.

I have four daughters and by me staying silent, statistically, proving that one of my daughters could be a victim of sexual violence I wasn't creating a safe space for them by staying silent. So it was almost enabling them to stay silent. So thank you for allowing me the opportunity to share my story and to hopefully help some people by creating a safe place for them to maybe share their story.

[00:37:45] Elizabeth Smart: Thank you. And everyone listening today. I mean, what can I say? I like, I feel like I'm walking away from today with a lot, so I hope you are too. I mean, Barbi, she not only helped explain so articulately, why, you know why victims don't come forward, why it's scary, how it's important to respond. Become that person that a survivor, a victim can trust. Become that person and hold on to that person because it is, it is sacred. It is special. 

And to all of you victims, you are, you are not alone. I mean, there are so many of us standing out there along with you. You are not alone. And so please be sure to write a review, write a comment, send in a question, subscribe, give us a rating and make sure to catch us on our next episode of Smart Talks.

Thank you so much, and God bless you.