SHOW NOTES
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:50] Elizabeth Smart: Hello, and welcome back everyone to another episode of Smart Talks by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I am Elizabeth, and today we are taking questions that have been submitted to us via Instagram and email and, like I've said before, I am not a therapist. I'm not a psychiatrist. I mean, I have not been clinically trained in all this, so this is opinion. And this is my personal experience. And please keep in mind that whatever works for me does not necessarily work for everyone else. And also, which is probably most important, is that you should never compare your trauma or your experiences to someone else's because even if from the outside, the experiences looked exactly the same and you might find similarities, each of us are so different that our experiences, no matter how similar they are, they're still different because we're different people. We are, and that's not bad. That's not good. I mean, it's just, I mean, it is good that we're different, but don't compare your experiences. That's all I can say. Pain is pain at the end of the day, and it doesn't help by, you know, trying to use someone else's like model to compare against. It just, it does not work that way.
[00:02:08] So, one of the first questions that I'm answering on this episode is, "I'm a new mom with PTSD. How do you cope with mom and wife duties on bad days?" Well, that is honestly, kind of a hard question to answer, because as I mentioned, we are all different and what works for me might not necessarily work for anyone else, but that being said, I, in my mind, I always kind of have this, okay, this is good, maybe that's better, maybe that's best. I did not come up with good, better, best. That's not me. But that was something that I was taught raising. And so sometimes when I'm having a hard day, just knowing that my children have been fed and they're safe. I mean, they're in the house they're physically safe, like they're not being harmed, that's enough. And if that just means that I'm sitting on the sofa, watching Disney movies with them for the rest of the day, that's okay. I don't, I mean, if you came over to my house right now, it is not clean. It is not perfect. In fact, you'd probably see that my house is dirty more often than it's clean.
[00:03:22] And then on the days that I do finally get it clean, that's what I'm like, "okay. Nobody breathe. Cause it took me all day to clean it up. So we're going out for dinner." But I try to, I mean, for me, I try to allow myself to have bad days or take it easy or I mean, things that I enjoy, things that I like doing, and I know I've mentioned this before, there are things that I try to bring into like my daily routine. So I find like exercising really helps me every day just having it be one of the first things I do every day, whether it's 20 minutes or an hour, that's just something that automatically boosts my, my mood. It boosts my, kind of my outlook on the day.
[00:04:12] Also I love to be outside. So if I've had something really, really stressful or I'm struggling, or I'm dealing with a situation that I really don't want to deal with, because let's face it, we all have those, this is almost going to sound funny and crazy, but sometimes I just have to go outside and pull weeds. Pulling weeds is not necessarily a hard thing to do. I mean, it doesn't take a lot of mental energy, but it's, for me, it makes me feel better because I'm outside and I feel like being outside is really healing and therapeutic to my soul. And then there's also the added bonus that I feel like I'm accomplishing something, even if it is mundane.
[00:04:54] It's something that I do that also crazily enough makes me feel better. Sometimes that's not always an option. You know, sometimes it's listening to an audio book or just listening to music or maybe playing music. That being said, I actually have not practiced my harp in quite awhile. I think about it probably every day. My execution on practicing definitely does not happen every day. So those are some of the things that I do.
[00:05:23] But also, I just want to take a second here and I know this is a really long answer to this question. But there is no shame in reaching out for professional help. There is no shame in reaching out to a counselor. You know, I did not want professional therapy when I got home from being kidnapped, but actually as my parents were going through a divorce, that was really hard for me. And I felt like I was struggling. And so as an adult, I did go to therapy. I did reach out to a therapist for help to deal with that.
[00:05:57] And so there are, you know, there are different times in our life when we need a little bit more support. And if you're really struggling and nothing seems to be helping you, do not be afraid to reach out for professional help, do not be afraid. Those services are there for a reason and you only have this one shot at life. And I don't think you're meant to be miserable throughout life. So do not be afraid to. Ask for help, do not be afraid to seek out counseling or seeking out medication. There's nothing wrong with that. As long as it is, you know, prescribed by a medical professional by a doctor. There's nothing wrong with that. And if that's gonna help, you know, balance your hormones, if that's going to help you feel like yourself again, then you should do that.
[00:06:48] The next question from the questions that we received is, "how did you know that you were ready to talk openly about what happened?" That's actually a great question because when I, after I was rescued, I swore up and down that I never wanted to talk about what happened.
[00:07:07] I was never going to write a book. I was never going to do a movie. I never, was never wanting to talk about it ever again. I just wanted to disappear. I wanted to go back to being who I was before I was kidnapped. And I just wanted to pick up where I left off. Obviously that did not happen. I mean, here I am on a podcast answering these kinds of questions.
[00:07:28] I think, I feel like for me, a turning point was actually the trial of my captors. It took, you know, about eight years, close to a decade, before the trial finally happened for my captors. And during that time, I mean, there were so many twists and turns and "are they competent? Are they not competent? Oh, the statute of limitations is almost up. So now these are your options. Do you want to move it to a federal court? Do you not want to?" And so by the time it finally happened, I think I was so fed up. I was just like, this is it. I'm here. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do whatever I have to do just for this to end for this to be over.
[00:08:12] This is ridiculous. It's gone on for so long. And so it really was the trial where I spent many hours up on the witness stand being examined and cross-examined, and it was during those hours, and after that, I sat down that I sat there and thought, "that really sounded like a, a list of bullet points. It sounded like a list of facts that I didn't talk about, you know, my emotions or what led up to that, or you know, how that made me feel, or that's not, I mean, it is what happened, but it's not, it's not the full story. I'm so much more than just this list of bullet points." And that was a pretty big turning point for me in wanting to give it context, not to mention, I mean, in the eight years, from the time that I was rescued to the time that I actually went to my case actually went to trial, I had met so many other survivors and I've listened to their stories and when that day came, I just felt like I had an opportunity to make a difference. And this is not something that I ever envisioned or imagined in my life, but I have an opportunity to do something that I never would have dreamt of doing otherwise.
[00:09:29] And I have support behind me and I'm in a healthy place in my life where I can do this. And that's really what pushed me into coming out and speaking about it openly about it, and, you know, creating the Elizabeth Smart Foundation and becoming an advocate for survivors and prevention education and trying to help take this shift in the way that we view sexual violence and rape and how we respond to our victims and our survivors when they step forward. So that is, that's kind of how that happened.
[00:10:14] Moving on to the next question, "how do I stop feeling weak for freezing and disassociating instead of fighting back?" okay. Whoever asked this question and whoever else feels the same way, you are not weak. You are not weak. Freezing and disassociating is actually a natural response. I mean, it's, I know I've used this example before in a completely different situation. But I feel like it applies here as well. It's like when you go to the doctor and they have like their little hammer and they hit right below your knee and your leg automatically kicks, you have that reflex in you. The same thing. That's what freezing and disassociating is as well. It's just a reflex. It's what your body automatically does. And to not do that, I mean, it's something that you have to practice and practice and practice all the time.
[00:11:18] So Miyo, who is our Smart Defense, our head Smart Defense Instructor and continually improving and refining our, our Smart Defense program, she is, you know, she is a world ranked jujitsu fighter. You know, she is incredible. She is amazing. And she would be the first one to tell you that even with all of her years of training and studying, she could still freeze tomorrow. I mean, it's just something that happens in your body and for you to overcome that freezing, I mean, it's something that, that takes practice that takes, you know, constant vigilance and you know, it's, you should not, do not feel, do not feel weak.
[00:12:03] I froze. I froze the night I was kidnapped. I froze when I was cornered in the bathroom. You know, there've been many times in my life where I have frozen and that doesn't make me weak. That doesn't make me any less strong. So please, please don't feel that way. Know that that was a reflex of your body and that you are strong and that you are still here. And that what happened to you is not your fault. That the only person who is at fault, if you've been abused or you've been sexually traumatized, is the perpetrator. And that is not something you need to take responsibility for.
[00:12:46] Now is your chance to take responsibility for your healing for your future life and for making it the best life that you can possibly have. So focus on that. Don't think about being weak, cause you're not. You're not. I don't have to know your exact situation to know that you're not weak for freezing.
[00:13:06] The next question is, "how do I stop comparing my trauma? I feel like it wasn't bad enough to have PTSD." Well I kind of talked a little bit about this, right at the very beginning before I even started asking questions, but there are no levels of trauma. Trauma is trauma. Pain is pain. I mean, you feel the way you feel, you know, for a reason. Not because it wasn't bad or it wasn't bad enough. You're human. You're not a machine. And if you are feeling like you've been traumatized, if you're feeling like you've been hurt, then don't, don't worry about it. Not being bad enough to justify how you feel. Because, like I was saying at the beginning, comparing your pain to someone else's, that doesn't help. That only makes things worse and that's not where we should be focusing our energy on.
[00:14:18] I mean, love yourself, love yourself, give yourself some, some grace and some room and be like, you know what? This was hard for me. Once again, going back to earlier, you know, when I, after I got back from being rescued, I didn't want to see a therapist. I didn't want to talk to anyone about it. And yet when my parents went through a divorce, that's when I sought counseling. I think a lot of people would be like, well, divorces happen every day that's, you know, that's not a big deal or, it is a big deal, but I mean, compared to your kidnapping, I mean, come on.
[00:14:51] And yet for me, I felt like I really needed counseling during my parents' divorce. And it was something I didn't want after I was rescued. So it doesn't always make sense. I mean, It's not always logical the way that you feel doesn't, I don't know, it doesn't always have to line up exactly to... I'm having a hard time articulating this, but the way that you feel might be worse or less than what you feel your trauma was, that does not make it wrong.
[00:15:29] That does not make your feelings any less valid. So, know that you're not alone. And I think probably a lot of people feel the same way. And once again, don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to go to a professional. Don't be afraid to look into other modalities of healing and of self care and of therapy as well. Because you know, there is not just one correct pathway. Sometimes it's going to be a mixture of different things. Sometimes it's probably going to be a little bit less conventional. Sometimes it might be a little bit more conventional. There is no right way to heal. There is no, just one way to heal. There's no formula for this. So don't give up, you are an excellent company.
[00:16:20] "What's your advice for someone who feels stuck in recovery and/or healing?" My advice? Well, I mean, it is, advice is, it's subjective. So keep that in mind. I certainly don't have all the answers, but if you feel like you're stuck or you're not making progress, don't give up.
[00:16:47] Keep going, keep trying, maybe it's time to try a different modality. Maybe it's time for a break, maybe you need to find a new counselor maybe instead of doing traditional talk therapy, maybe you try equine therapy. Maybe it's finding something for you that helps you to release your emotion in a new way. So maybe it's art or dancing or music. Don't give up because I, I do believe that healing absolutely is a journey. And there are times when it feels like it comes easier and quicker. And there are times when it feels like it's slower and harder and new things constantly come at us.
[00:17:36] And, you know, every day is a new day. Don't give up. You never know what the end of today will bring. And the beginning of tomorrow will bring. Don't give up. I wish I had better advice. I wish I had something else to tell you. I mean, I'm still learning myself. So if you're listening to this and, and you have thoughts and you have ideas or you have suggestions, please leave them in the comments after this podcast of things that have helped you, if you've ever felt stuck in your life and you can pinpoint, to pinpoint what it was that helped you please feel free to add those comments. Because like I said I'm constantly looking for new ways as well.
[00:18:18] The next question is, "did you ever feel like no one could understand your experience? Like you were alone in what happened to you?" Absolutely. I think that is probably why I didn't want to go talk to a therapist when I got back from being kidnapped because I, I didn't think that they could understand. It had been me alone with my two captors for nine months.
[00:18:48] You know, the therapist wasn't there. How could they possibly understand what I went through if they weren't there? And to a degree, I do believe that is true. That, you know, other people may never fully understand exactly how you felt going through what you went through. That's not to say though that they can't be helpful, that they can't help be a guide through your pain or through your darkness, back into the light.
[00:19:13] I truly believe as human beings that we need each other and that we need to support each other and that we need to be there for each other. So even though you feel alone going through whatever it is that you've been through. That doesn't mean that you need to be alone in your recovery. That doesn't mean that you need to give up hope on other support around you.
[00:19:38] And I think for me as time has passed, I've been able to better articulate how I felt. I don't think as a 15 year old who was just rescued, I could articulate all my feelings that I felt the day after I was rescued. But now as it's been 18 years since I was rescued, I am much better equipped to articulate how I felt. And I guess for me, that kind of came with time and experience and a learning and an understanding of listening to other survivors and listening to their stories and, and furthering my, education in this space.
[00:20:24] So yes, I have absolutely felt alone. I have, you know, definitely felt at times that no one else could understand exactly how I felt, but I mean that also being said, and without trying to sound contradictory, compared to what I said earlier about us all being different and we can go through the same thing, but still have completely different experiences. That's not to say that there aren't similarities as well, and those are things that I think we can find across the spectrum of human experience. I mean, what makes you angry versus what makes me angry might be completely different, but I think we can both validate each other in knowing that our feelings of anger are the same.
[00:21:09] So you might feel alone. And what you've been through might have been very individually targeted at you, but you're not alone in this human experience. I'm sorry. The answer was very confusing and I guess I need to work on better articulating that, but I hope it made some kind of sense.
[00:21:32] The next question that I have is "how do you cope with hearing so many stories about assault?" That is something I'm always working on. I do hear a lot of stories of assault. I do hear a lot. I have a lot of people disclose their abuse to me. Many times, I'm the first person that they ever share their story with. And it is hard to listen to so many stories of the things that most people can't even comprehend in their darkest nightmares.
[00:22:11] And so for me, it's almost like this is something that I care so deeply about and so passionately about, but it's almost like when I'm done with this, I have to unplug and I have to find that balance. I can't spend every second of every day surrounded by this. I mean, when I'm at home and my, my children are present and we watch movies. I don't watch movies that have assault scenes in them or rape scenes in them. It is so hard for me whether it's true or it's make-believe, I mean, even in movies, like, and this is great, if some of you want to laugh at it, that's totally fine. But even movies, like Finding Nemo, I mean, Nemo was kidnapped. But it made it look like he had this really great adventure, you know, his, he made all of these new friends, they have this big escape plan, you know, it looked almost fun. And when I first saw it, it was shortly after I was rescued and I saw it with a group of other young girls. And we went to movie theater together and, and I mean, everyone loved it.
[00:23:31] And at the time I couldn't quite understand why I was a little bit angry about it and why didn't really like it. And then I honestly, I don't remember if it was months or if it was years later, I finally realized why I didn't like it. And I was like, wait a second. When I was kidnapped, it was not fun. It was not vacation. I didn't make these great friends. It was terrible and it was hard. And watching that made me feel like kidnapping could be fun. It could be this great adventure. When in reality it really, it's not. It's not a great adventure. It's not fun. So finding that balance for me is, is really
[00:24:12] important. And sometimes, you know, when I've heard a lot of stories or when I've gone to very dark places in the day in working in the foundation and the advocacy that I do, and in the speaking that I do at the end of the day, I mean, I have to listen to light and fluffy or pure comedy or romantic comedy or something that does not evoke a deep emotion. Especially darker emotions, but I suppose that's how most people would probably relate to it. Things that are going to make me feel angry or sad or frustrated. I don't want to feel those feelings at the end of the day.
[00:24:56] So I usually tend to stick to the lighter kind of shows or the lighter kind of podcasts or music or, I mean, I spend a lot of time with my kids watching Disney movies. I mean, I cannot even count how many times I've watched Raya in the last, since it came out. And even when I watch that, I usually start crying. Cause I'm like "is Disney trying to send us a message of how we just need to love each other and be a little bit more kinder and a little bit more compassionate towards each other."
[00:25:36] Anyway for me, it's a constant struggle of finding that balance, but I do try to work at it and I try to take that time to get back in touch with sort of the more normal things in life, like doing laundry or, you know, making cookies with my kids or riding their bikes outside. So it is a struggle, but that's how I cope with hearing so many dark things.
[00:26:03] Another question is "how can I start working in advocacy?" It's great question. There are so many different ways. Some of, I think some of the best ways is to find what's available in your community and start by supporting those different nonprofits or organizations that are currently doing good in your community, whether that's a children's advocacy center or a YWCA or I mean, you know, fighting human trafficking.
[00:26:32] I mean, whatever it is finding what's currently in your area, because I can promise you there probably already is something incredible in your area and they need your support. And they need your help and reaching out to them as well as becoming more educated on the topics that you're passionate about.
[00:26:54] I'm passionate about changing, you know, we had a woman, I recently interviewed her and her name was Elizabeth Peace and she, you know, she's an incredible survivor herself, and she is trying to help change laws to require that military personnel go through child prevention sexual abuse training, and making that a mandate.
[00:27:20] She's just shared with me that I had no idea and it's still, still blowing my mind that the number one reason why military personnel is in prison is for child sexual abuse. I had no idea about that. I mean, I knew that there was a big problem about with sexual violence in the military. But I did not know it, the number one reason why they are incarcerated was because of child sexual abuse.
[00:27:44] So, I mean, if that's something you feel like you can get behind, find something you're passionate about, learn about it and get involved. Support organizations that are out there doing something already. And if you see a gap and you think you have the ability and the potential to fill that gap, begin. That is where you can fill in the gap.
[00:28:03] Probably the last question that I am going to answer today is "what is the best way to support someone working through trauma?" I love this question because it gives me just another opportunity to talk about one of my very favorite campaigns that's most near and dear to my heart. It's by believing them.
[00:28:26] And our campaign that we have is called our We Believe You campaign. And it runs throughout November into the beginning of December, because if a person comes to you and discloses abuse to you, tells you that something happened to them, you might be the first person that they've ever disclosed abuse to.
[00:28:47] That is a huge deal. It takes an amazing amount of courage and bravery and frankly vulnerability to finally open up to someone about that. And if they came to you, it's because they trust you. They believe that you can help them. They believe that you will believe them. And so the most important thing you can do, the first words out of your mouth should be, "I believe you," because that is going to set the trajectory for that person's healing. If you believe them, if they feel like they're supported, that can set them on the path for a positive, an upward trajectory that might give them the support and the belief that they need to continue forward.
[00:29:39] If you turn to them and you say, "well, I know that person, are you sure that's really what happened? I just can't believe that person would do that." Well, that can have the exact opposite effect that can make them them turn on themselves, doubt themselves, feel like, well, you know, if they're doubting me, did it really happen? Maybe, am I at fault? Am I to blame? You know, What was my skirt too short? Was my shirt too low? I mean, should I not have been alone? Did I do something to put myself in that situation? And that's not where we need our survivors going. That's not a path they need to go down. You know, what happened has happened. And if they're sharing it with you, you should believe them.
[00:30:21] And there will always be people who say, "well, you know what? If it's not true, what if they lying?" Well, if they're lying, It'll come to the surface. Nobody wants to go down this road for fun. It is too hard and it is too painful. So if they are lying, you're still better off believing them because it will come to the surface sooner than later, you know, like they won't, it's too much to deal with.
[00:30:50] It's too much pressure to live under. So first thing is believe them, support them. You know, if they, if they need a friend to go with them to the police station to report it, be that friend. If they need someone to drive them to therapy, be that friend. Maybe they just need someone to be like, "Hey, do you want to come over? And you know, watch the British Baking show again with a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream, Cherry Garcia in particular these days," maybe that's what they need. Or let's just go for a walk or a hike. I mean, they also want to be treated like a normal human being. So be that support for them, if they need help, taking the path towards like the police and therapy, but also don't just stop being their friend. Don't forget to treat them like a normal human being. Don't forget to try to create those positive, happy memories because they might need those happy memories to pull them through the dark times. So don't give up on being their friend either and just treating them like a normal human being as well.
[00:31:58] So I did not get through all the questions today, but I will come back to these questions again on another episode of Smart Talks. So if you have more questions, I am, if I did not answer them, if you have comments or ideas on, on other suggestions that can help other survivors. Please feel free to leave your comments.
[00:32:20] Please feel free to leave a review. Please feel free to add those things that you felt were helpful for you in your healing and in your journey throughout life. We so appreciate them. I appreciate them. And please be sure to tune in and catch us next time on our next episode of Smart Talks. Thank you again.