SHOW NOTES
Visit Elizabeth Peace’s website, elizabethpeace.com, to read her professional bio
Visit operationinnnocence.org to learn more about Elizabeth’s organization.
Visit d2l.org to take the Darkness to Light trainings mentioned by Elizabeth in this episode.
Follow Elizabeth Peace on Instagram and Facebook.
Read Protecting the Gift, the book mentioned by Elizabeth at 17:32.
Follow the Elizabeth Smart Foundation on Instagram and Facebook.
Learn more about Smart Defense, our empowering self defense program for women and kids.
Chat 24/7 with the National Sexual Assault Hotline.
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:50] Elizabeth Smart: Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of Smart Talks by the Elizabeth Smart Foundation. I am Elizabeth Smart and today's guest is an incredible woman named Elizabeth. She is an air force veteran and former journalist and TV news anchor. After working on Capitol Hill as a communications director and speech writer for Congress, she now serves as the Director of Public and Congressional Affairs Office for Naval Surface Warfare Center, Corona. She is a blogger and podcaster for Purpose Over Perfect and founder of Operation Innocence, a nonprofit designed to protect military children from sexual abuse. She is a trained facilitator for Darkness to Light, teaching the "Stewards of Children" child sexual abuse prevention program.
Elizabeth is the founder of St. George News, the largest news and media organization in Southern Utah, volunteers as a judge for the Society of Professional Journalists Annual Media in Excellence awards, and taught social media, broadcast journalism and public relations courses in the DC area. Elizabeth is, needless to say, an incredible woman, an amazing advocate and wow, I feel so lucky to have you here with me today.
Thank you.
[00:02:02] Elizabeth Peace: Oh, thank you. Thanks. I really appreciate you having me. And, and just letting me tell this story and why all of this matters. It's always hard to hear your own bio though, because as you're listening, you're like, oh wow, oh, that's a lot. I did that.
[00:02:18] Elizabeth Smart: It is so impressive and amazing. I mean, you should feel so proud of yourself. That's incredible. I think anyone would be proud to have half of that bio.
[00:02:27] Elizabeth Peace: You know what I'm thinking as, as you were reading that, and I am jumping way ahead by jumping right into this. But when I, whenever I hear those things, it is so common for survivors to look at that and just feel like this out of body moment or experience because I look back and go, wow, I did all that. I just never thought I was capable of doing all of that.
And I am so excited to talk about that today, because if I can do all these things, after everything that I had gone through, then just imagine what somebody else could do. And I actually just heard this over the weekend, which is kind of a theme that I, I really am hoping to to get people to understand.
I wish I had understood this, but somebody told me this weekend, "if only I had known my worth when I was a teenager, what a difference that would have made." So as you're reading the bio, I'm like, "man, if only I had known as a teenager, all of that was possible. What a difference that would have made," but you know, here I am 41 going, oh, wow.
That, that was kind of a lot, a lot of things I never thought I would ever do.
[00:03:34] Elizabeth Smart: And actually I think that probably resonates with most people, whether they're survivors or not. I mean, like I even, I think of my life right now and. I think of what I imagined my life would be pre-kidnapping, pre-everything else, and there are certainly some elements that are what I imagined them to be, but then there's a whole lot that are, that is so much more than I dreamt I would ever do. Like, I think I feel the same way that I'm like, wow, I had no idea that I had this potential or this power inside me. And I think actually that's probably a pretty common feeling for teenagers or just anyone to think like, "can I really do this? Is that really within my, my ability or really within my potential?" And all the time, I'm like, "I am in over my head. What am I doing? I should not be this person."
[00:04:24] Elizabeth Peace: Yes. I still feel that way. I very much feel that way. Yeah. Even now, sometimes when I'm at work, I'm like, "why, why did they choose me to do this? I am not qualified to do that."
[00:04:38] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, reading your bio, you clearly are qualified and all the time, I think. Wow, I think people might have a different idea of what or who Elizabeth Smart is versus who I really am. I'm not sure that they always match up.
[00:04:56] Elizabeth Peace: Right. I understand. I completely understand.
[00:05:01] Elizabeth Smart: But, so yes. Thank you for your insight. I mean, just being so vulnerable and opening up. And going right back to the beginning, I mean, you've had trauma in your life. Do you mind just talking a little bit about, what's brought you to this point? I mean, what's happened in your life?
[00:05:19] Elizabeth Peace: Yeah, I don't mind. I think it helps people to understand why I've become so passionate about the things that I advocate for outside of work and just kind of how that made me who I am. And then what kind of mom that that made me, because there's just so much of our history and the way that we are raised, that shapes who we become as adults and the way that we view the world and, and try to raise our kids to be the world. But I was a, I was sexually abused as a child, for the majority of my childhood, by family members. And much like many survivors, these were, these were people who had access to me. This was completely unknown to my parents. They had no idea that any of this was happening.
And in fact it wasn't until I was 18 that they found out that any of this had happened. And so I went through a lot of my childhood, probably with my parents completely confused as to why was I struggling in school? Why? I mean, I had, at one point, I wasn't even sure I was going to graduate from high school. I really was not expected to graduate from high school. And there, there was just so, so much behavior that I was displaying that back then. Not many people could put a name to it and they couldn't really identify, "Hey, why, why is she acting the way that she is?" Whether it's just, you know, not, not paying attention in school and not, not doing my homework and not getting good grades or constantly being sick and having to, you know, say, "Hey, I can't go to school today."
It just, it was one thing after another and all the red flags were there, but nobody really had a name for it, or at least not in the world that I grew up in. Yeah.
[00:07:05] Elizabeth Smart: And just something that I feel like I've come across a lot that I'm curious to know in your situation. As this abuse, as this sexual abuse happened, I mean, throughout the majority of your childhood, when it started happening did you know it was sexual abuse? Did you know that it was wrong? Or was there like a moment along the way where you realized, "oh my gosh, this is not how I should be being treated."
[00:07:28] Elizabeth Peace: I would say that I knew that something was wrong. I don't think I could have classified it as sexual abuse at that age, because my earliest memory was around the age of three, so, three, four years old. And at that time, the family member was also very young. And so I didn't really understand what was happening, but I knew that it felt odd and I knew that it wasn't supposed to happen because it was a big secret. And I also knew that if I told that this person would get in a lot of trouble.
So those were all the red flags to me that, Hey, this isn't supposed to be happening and something is wrong here, but I was, I think, 12 or 13 before I confronted this, this person and said, "you have to stop. I don't want you to doing this anymore." And then what the aftermath of that, which is still kind of, I think kind of odd for me to reconcile with today is that then this person did the polar opposite and avoided me at all times, did everything to not be around me. And I struggled so much with feeling like I had done the wrong thing by telling him to stop touching me.
So that's, that's hard, I think, as a child to reconcile this person who's been in your life who, outside of these things, you know, this is a person I care about, that I love, that is a family member, and I didn't want them doing this, but I also didn't want them to just completely disappear from my life, which is what they ended up doing.
And in fact, to this day this person has thankfully gone through their own healing and has, have gone through their debt to society and, and has done all of those things that a lot of survivors, unfortunately don't, they don't have that. But this person still does not, we don't have any conversation with each other. So there's still that trying to reconcile the, the child in me that feels really bad that I severed this family relationship. And to this day, there is difficulty whenever there are big family gatherings, because the family knows now that this has happened and that we don't speak to each other.
[00:09:51] Elizabeth Smart: Did you, I mean, has the family, has your family supported you through it or do you feel like there was a division or was there an amount of disbelief in it?
[00:10:01] Elizabeth Peace: I would say there felt, whether real or perceived on my end, there felt to be a lot of division in the beginning. And it wasn't until I started to really speak out very publicly about what happened that over years I felt more support from different members of my family. So I, the disbelief was definitely there in the beginning.
And I think that's the case, we see that all the time in the news as a journalist, I saw that all the time. You'd be covering a story, there would be an accusation against an adult. The adult would maybe be arrested. And then in the news, you'd see the comments and people would say, "no, I know this person. There's no way that they would do that." And then we already know that 93% of the time that's actually exactly what happened. That very few cases of child sexual abuse ever turn out to be false, but the disbelief is there. And I think it's because we don't, we just can't imagine doing that ourselves. So we had such a hard time understanding why somebody that we know and care about would do that. So that was there in the beginning. And I feel like there's a lot more support now, but I had to be very vocal and willing to sever family ties in order to get the healing that I needed to get there.
[00:11:20] Elizabeth Smart: And I think a lot of survivors and victims would feel very similar to how you did dealing with, well, now my family is divided or this person has disappeared and I cared about this person even though they were hurting me.
During that time, did you find things that were helpful to you that helped you cope or helped you move forward or gave you the courage to continue going and not give up?
[00:11:44] Elizabeth Peace: You know, the, the two things that I found to be really helpful before I became an advocate, I became so vocal, which was really the tipping point for me. That's what really pushed me into moving into healing. But, and I know that's not the case for everybody, not everybody's going to heal by talking about it and that's okay.
But for me, the first one was counseling. So I would go through periods of time where I would go through counseling and I would talk about it with a, somebody who was really certified, not just, not just a friend and friends can be great counselors, but somebody actually certified in helping children through child sexual abuse.
And that was really helpful. And then I would, you know, not go to counseling for a while. Cause I'm like, "I'm fine. Everything's fine. Look how much better I am." Right. And then I would struggle and I would find myself back in counseling. So I'm a, I'm a big proponent of counseling on a continuous basis if needed.
But the second thing for me was becoming a mom. I found that that really helped open my eyes to this was not my fault. I am in no way to blame for this, and there's nothing wrong with me, but it wasn't until we went through our own struggles during, so I am divorced and remarried, and we went through our own struggles during some family visitation on a military base and going through that process and having to fight for my kids and having to fight to protect my kids is really what helped me go, "wow. I had a lot of healing to do." And it was really hard to help my kids if I wasn't willing to do the same work. So in helping my kids and in fighting for my kids, then I found I was doing the work I had needed to do the whole time.
[00:13:33] Elizabeth Smart: Wow. I think that's incredible. And I think you bring up such valid points as well. Because I think in a lot of many victims' minds, is they think, "well, I went to counseling. I should be good now. Or I've had a year of counseling or two years, or maybe 10 years. Like I should be good now," but I love how you talk about how you went and then you were good for a while, but then you went back again.
And I think that's important because I think a lot of people just think, well, you just get over it and you go on, but I don't. I don't think it quite works like that.
[00:14:04] Elizabeth Peace: You know, I'm pretty sure it doesn't work that way. I think one of the biggest myths that I hear about child sexual abuse or any kind of childhood trauma, is that the moment the trauma has ended or paused, or there's been some kind of intervention and, you know, maybe it's somebody abusing a child. So you've removed that person from the child's life. Now the child, their childhood is magically restored. And I've never seen that to be the case, ever. I have never seen a child just, "okay. This person's not in my life anymore. I'm fine now."
So I try really hard with anybody who's not been through this to help them understand that that's great, that you were able to remove this terrible situation from your child's life, but without the proper healing, this child, well, for one, no matter what, they have been forever changed. Can they be forever changed and eventually it come out, you know, everything's okay, and they're happy and they're succeeding? Yes. But they are forever changed. And nothing is overnight. And what I have found as a mom is that whenever you hit these big anniversaries or milestones, good and bad, it can bring all of those memories back.
And then we're back to counseling. And we're back to getting help. And we're back to somebody who's better at this and trained in how to help a child overcome, where I'm a mom who has learned how to fight for my kids, but not necessarily knows, I don't have a degree in psychology. I can't, you know, do the years of healing that it can sometimes take.
[00:15:45] Elizabeth Smart: Well, and I mean, I have to agree with you. I believe that there is nothing as resilient as the human spirit. I mean, I really believe that, but I also agree completely with you in that resiliency doesn't just mean that like your childhood goes back to the way it was pre-trauma or that like, the darkness disappears from your life or from your soul. I mean, I agree with you completely on that and actually love how you bring in your, your kids and talk about how that helps you also realize the healing that you needed to go. I think of, so I have three kids myself now, and I think of my own parents.
And when I was rescued, I mean, I didn't, honestly like the thought of them going through something now that I was back or struggling, maybe with me, you know, going on to school and then going off to college and, you know, traveling abroad and those kinds of things, the thought that they, of course they'd be concerned about me, but the thought that maybe that, that would be difficult for them, it just never even crossed my mind.
And now I have my three kids myself and I'm like, oh my gosh, nothing would be more traumatic after having been kidnapped and everything that happened to me, nothing would be more traumatic for me than having something happen to my children. And so...
[00:17:09] Elizabeth Peace: I can unfortunately attest to that. There is nothing worse than having something happen to your children. Going through anything I went through, I would go through it and million times over again to take back anything that has happened to my kids. But we can't, we don't, we don't control that.
[00:17:29] Elizabeth Smart: Yeah. I wish we did.
[00:17:32] Elizabeth Peace: Right. You know what? That, that actually brings me to a book that was really helpful for me as a mom, it's called Protecting the Gift.
I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's, it's really good. When I, way back when I was in the military, before I became a mom, I had this officer tell me, you really need to read a book called the Gift of Fear. And it talks all about protecting ourselves, you know, relying on our intuition, listening to those gut instincts and really focusing on, these things are happening around us, and we may not be aware, but there is definitely a voice inside of us saying, "Hey, this is not a good situation. And this is why we need to pay attention to it." And it talks about protecting ourselves and it was written by Gavin de Becker. And it was such a, such a great book, but then he did a followup book for parents called Protecting the Gift.
And it talks all about how to raise your kids in this world where terrible things really do happen. It's a reality that it's happening now. How do we raise our kids and protect them? And how do we do it without completely living in fear? And what are the tools that we as parents can use and that we can teach our kids so that they can leave the house and go to college and go to school, and we don't have to completely panic. Although I think we are always going to a little bit. But we don't have to completely panic. Maybe for example, I don't do, we don't do sleepovers that just, that's not a thing in our house. Nope, Nope, Nope. Other people are like, "oh, they're missing out on this wonderful childhood experience."
And I'm like, yeah, no, I disagree. However, they do go to school and there was a time when I also had to choose a babysitter and I had to choose a daycare. And how do you do that without just being completely terrified of all the things that can go wrong because you've seen them go wrong because you've lived through it?
And his whole book talks about how to protect your kids without just completely, you know, fear parenting or fear-based parenting isn't very healthy for you or your child. So he goes through some very real tips on how to do that. And I love that he opens up with stranger danger. And the reason why it's good, we don't teach stranger danger because it's I don't want to say it's a myth, it happens, but it happens less than 10% of the time that somebody is abused by a stranger. And so we don't want to teach our children only strangers will hurt you when the majority of the time, the person hurting them is a family member or a friend or a neighbor. And so he taught, he opens right up with that.
Your biggest fear is probably stranger danger. So let's start with that. And then the next 20 chapters are the things that are a little more common.
[00:20:26] Elizabeth Smart: I'm actually going to write that down because that is probably one of the most asked questions that I get is, you know, "how do you protect your kids? How do you talk to your kids? Do your kids know that you were kidnapped? Do you know, do your kids know that you were raped?" I'm like, well, my oldest is only six, so no haven't talked to her about like, full on rape. I mean, I've talked about, you know, what's appropriate and being respectful of your body and not touching other people's body.
I mean, we've talked about things at an age-appropriate level but people ask me all the time. And I mean, I feel like there's a few things I can say, but I always can use more education myself. So I'm just going to write that down and it's Protecting the Gift,
[00:21:06] Elizabeth Peace: Protecting the Gift, Gavin de Becker. It's really good.
And that was the number one question I had as a parent because when I went through my divorce, I just always thought nothing, nothing will ever happen to my kids because I'm so aware. And then it did. And I just couldn't wrap my head around, how is this possible? I did everything. Absolutely everything I could think of. I did all the right things. I didn't do all the right things, but at the time, the majority of the things I didn't even know. I didn't know that there were these tools out there. I didn't know about Darkness to Light. I didn't know about the Monique Burr Foundation. And so I just thought being hyper-vigilant and being a survivor and knowing the flags, the red flags, I just thought, okay, this means that I will know.
And afterward my number one question was, well, how do you prevent it in the first place then? And so that was what I learned through Darkness to Light and the book Protecting the Gift. So what we found though, is that Darkness to Light, which is such a phenomenal organization, I know you've had them on your podcast and they're wonderful.
I have been facilitating with them for almost a decade. I just am so in awe of the work that they do and the amount of children that they help. But we found that there was this really big gap with the military community because military families move so much. And because when you look at how many people there are in this world, very few people have access to military bases if they're not military families, yet most military families don't even know that you can protect your kids. There are prevention methods. And so what I found is just a general lack of education that I didn't even have as a mom, is how do we prevent this in the first place? And so that was when I found out about things like Darkness to Light and then eventually created Operation Innocence to try to bridge that gap for military families, because I was trying to figure out how do we bring that onto our bases?
There's so many military parents and military schools that don't even know that this is a thing. They don't have any access to this. But on the age appropriate level, which is why I brought this up, I was going to tell you about the coloring book. So as part of Operation Innocence, my husband and I also created a coloring book to make it easy for parents to talk to their kids about body boundaries and, you know, being able to say, "hey, on this age appropriate level, let's have an open conversation about your body and how your body belongs to you," but not in this really scary way, because I'm not going to talk to a six year old about rape. That's a lot.
But I am going to talk to them about their body and how their body belongs to them. But my kids are now 21 and 14. And so we have some very, very open, honest conversations at this point. My, my youngest will walk in here sometimes, and "mom, what you doing?" And I'll be in the middle of, of a prevention class and I'll tell him "I'm doing a prevention class."
He was like, "oh, cool, Operation Innocence. Got it. We'll talk in a little bit." So we're at that point now, but you know, it takes time, and you need to do it in steps. And part of that was the body boundaries.
[00:24:26] Elizabeth Smart: I think this is a topic that all of us need to educate ourselves more on and continue that learning for ourselves as well as passing that information on to our children. But I think a lot of people right now would be like, well, what are some of the tips that I can start with today? Or what are the things that I can begin having conversations about right now?
[00:24:46] Elizabeth Peace: Okay. So right now today, if I was going to have a conversation with a younger child, maybe younger than age eight, then the first thing I would teach them is the swimming suit rule.
And I would say nobody has a right to touch you. And nobody has a right to touch you especially where a swimming suit would cover your body. And if somebody is or has, because that's, that's one thing that I have heard from survivors as well, they'll say, "well, somebody I got asked, 'is someone abusing you,' but the answer was no, no one's abusing me right now. So my answer was no, but did they abuse me two years ago? Yes." So asking those questions and having an open conversation with your child and saying, if somebody has or is touching you where your swimsuit covers, come tell mom or dad, grandma, grandpa, whoever the guardian is. And that would be probably the very first conversation I would have as well as respecting body boundaries of other kids.
Because unfortunately, what we're really seeing a lot right now is that kids have access to computers and iPads and iPhones, and they're getting smartphones and social media at really young ages. And so now they have access to things, to images they really should not be seeing. I know that my son came home and kindergarten with a laptop.
Kindergarten. And guess what? Google Images, it does not matter how many parental controls you put on an iPad. They can find things under Google Images that they are not supposed to find in kindergarten on a school computer.
I know in Utah, which I drive through quite a bit, I live in California now, but in Utah, there's all these billboards everywhere for a website called Duck Duck Go. And I am not a fan. I am not a fan of this website. And the reason why is because I know that they're advertising for privacy, but I also know that kids are talking to each other about this at school and saying, "Hey, if you want to look at pornography, there's a website called Duck Duck Go. And it doesn't track and it doesn't have cookies." and so, and, and it gets around parental controls.
So kids have access to these things at very young ages, and they're seeing things that they really should not be seeing and that their brains really can't handle. I, as an adult, don't want to see these things, but at their age, they, their brains really can't handle it.
And so I'd be having a conversation with my child about how we need to respect other people's bodies, and that we shouldn't be looking at body parts that the swimsuit doesn't cover, or touching. We don't do sleep overs and we definitely don't do play dates with the doors closed. Doors open. So, you know, those are just some of the rules that I started pretty early on to try to help my kids through the difficult things that they had gone through.
And then we had a lot of conversations. And I will tell you that the majority of kids, if they are being sexually abused, I think that, you know, this, especially with having Katelyn Brewer on the podcast, most kids don't tell, and if they do, they don't tell their own parents. So you have to have conversations with your kids about telling you as the trusted adult, or telling a teacher, or somebody that you can trust.
And sometimes you have to tell them, even if it's somebody that we care about, even if it's Grandma or Grandpa, or aunt or uncle so-and-so sometimes you have to say, even if it's somebody we really care about, I need you to come tell me because we can do surprises, but not secrets.
[00:28:33] Elizabeth Smart: And I think at this point, a lot of parents are thinking, okay, well, what do I do if I have this conversation with my child and then they tell me that, you know, this person has abused them or this person has been inappropriate. What are the next steps as the parents that you would suggest for them?
[00:28:52] Elizabeth Peace: I think the number one most important thing that I learned is the very next thing that comes out of your mouth is going to really dictate whether or not your child heals sooner or not until years later or as an adult. And that should be "I believe you." That's a very first thing a child needs to hear, because if the first thing that you say is "there's no way so-and-so would do that," then your child is going to internally shut down and wish that they had not told you anything. So as difficult as it is to believe that somebody we know and care about would do that to a child, that needs to be the first thing that you say is "I believe you."
And then don't make promises because the child, most children will immediately say, "please don't tell anyone. I don't want them to get in trouble." Don't make that promise because it is so important that we as non-law enforcement and as parents, that we don't try to be the investigator and the judge and the jury that we say, you know what, I am not going to accuse somebody of doing this. I am going to let the proper authorities investigate to see whether or not this has happened and they know the steps to take, and they know how to talk to children. So, that the most important thing to do is that conversation you're having in that moment with a child.
And you can ask questions, but you don't want to provide answers because you don't want to put things inside of a child's mind that didn't happen and have them repeat it and then that can ruin an entire investigation. So let the authorities, and when you're not with the child, that's when you call the authorities and say, "this is what has happened, what do I do?" and then the authorities take it from there.
Now I will tell you that in some states that authorities, depending on the age of the alleged perpetrator may say, "we can't investigate. The child who abused your child is too young, or that child's parents are not cooperating," but there's nothing stopping you at all from setting those boundaries and making sure that these one-on-one situations don't happen.
Preventing your child from having to be around their abuser, letting the authorities be the ones who do the actual investigating, and then making sure that you have your child in the appropriate kind of counseling, because I find a lot that parents, and it's very well intentioned they say, "okay, I'm not letting this person around my kid anymore. And so I stopped the abuse and we talked about it and now everything's fine," but it's really not your child's going through an entire internal war that they have to then reconcile and heal from. And there are very specific counselors who know how to help a child get through that. And that's, I don't recommend just general family counseling for that. I recommend finding somebody certified in child sexual abuse.
[00:32:06] Elizabeth Smart: I think everything that you've said has been so valuable and so important for parents to listen to and understand. And I love so much that the first thing that you said that a parent should say to your child is "I believe you." And I mean, at the foundation, at the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, we have a whole campaign that runs throughout November called our We Believe You campaign because I absolutely agree with you when a victim finally finds the courage to admit what's happened or discloses their abuse to someone that they trust, that person's response really will dictate the trajectory of that individual's healing. And so I love, I love so much that you said that.
[00:32:52] Elizabeth Peace: And I really like the We Believe You campaign. I have that t-shirt and I do wear it in public. I get a lot of looks at the grocery store, but yes, people will stop and they will look.
It's such a hard conversation to have. It's hard for adults to talk about. So imagine kids talking about this, you know, trying to say this is what happens to me when an adult doesn't even want to ask the question because it's so uncomfortable, but what's more uncomfortable than having the conversation is this happening to children. So it was hard. It was like, you know, this is gonna be really hard to talk about. Now imagine living through it. You, and I don't have to imagine that. For a lot of adults, I am grateful, but like my husband, such a great example, he's such a good man. And he's very honest with me. He says, "look, I was never abused as a kid, I had a really good childhood. I had a childhood where that kind of stuff," as far as he knows, "didn't happen in the home."
And so he then has to kind of sit back and listen to our experiences. And sometimes for him, that means understanding that here I am at the age of 41. And my experience as a child was so different from his, that today there's things I struggle with that is just a whole different world to him. I am just so anti pornography, I don't watch movies with nudity in them. I just don't like this idea that we are going to be objectifying people based off of their bodies. And he grew up in Louisiana and not that there's anything against Louisiana, it was just a different culture than what I grew up in, and see him, that was no big deal. He studied art in France. They painted people without their clothes on, and that is mind blowing to me. So we grew up in very different lifestyles and sometimes he just has to say, I just have to sit back and listen to your experience and believe you and be willing to have the conversation.
And sometimes that means you can just listen and say, "I believe you." And that's as far as you go, unless you're a parent. And then we, you know, we'd go into the investigating and the counseling and, and the next step. But if you're talking to another adult, sometimes all they really just want you to do is listen and believe.
[00:35:09] Elizabeth Smart: Well, I think it sounds like you found an amazing husband and an amazing partner to go through life. So tell me, I know we've talked a little bit about it, but tell me a little bit more about Operation Innocence and what your goal is.
[00:35:22] Elizabeth Peace: Absolutely. So my husband is an active duty Marine and I was in the Air Force many, many years ago. It's been a, it's been a whole lifetime ago, but we found that as we moved and we met all these different families, there's just, there's so many adults, and I am grateful for this, that will come to my husband and then he'll send them to me because they will say, "I think something has happened or I know something has happened and I don't know what to do next."
And so I actually have a lot of people reach out to me privately and say, "Hey, I know that you have experience with this. And I just, can you give me some advice and what do I do next?" And I try to help them with what is that next step. And we found it was happening a lot in military families. And then the more that I got involved with Darkness to Light and the more research I did, the more that I found, okay, so this is happening and the military member wasn't being prosecuted for it. Or in the case of Fort Meade, Maryland, it was really big news a couple of years ago, I think 2017 or 2018 at Fort Meade, Maryland they found that every single case of child sexual abuse that had come to the military base got put on a shelf.
Even when the perpetrator admitted to sexually abusing that child, the prosecuting attorneys there on base didn't know what to do. They weren't equipped and trained. The commanders are equipped and trained and they don't know what to do. So the majority of the time, all these Associated Press investigations found the military wasn't doing anything because they didn't know how, and they didn't know what. And so as parents that was pretty appalling for us. And also was very much our experience as well, because our situation was on an army base. And there were multiple adults who knew that something was happening during the visitations.
And I was not one of them. And when I found out and I reported it and I started the whole process and I started the whole fight, I got no help or assistance at all from the military. They didn't want anything to do with it. And so I had to go through civil court just to keep my children safe and to protect them from this continuing.
So we went through that on the civilian side, but it was very eyeopening, state laws and federal laws were not there to help children. And a lot of it was because they didn't know how. So my husband and I decided, you know, what, if we create Operation Innocence, and I'm working on making that an official 501c(3). The paperwork is a lot harder than I thought it would be.
[00:38:00] Elizabeth Smart: Yes, it is. It's a lot.
[00:38:02] Elizabeth Peace: Nonprofit paperwork. It's a lot. So I'm like, okay, so I have to redo that. Got it. But in the meantime, the mission is still there. And our goal is to bring the, this evidence-based training that is already proven primarily through Darkness to Light. It's already proven, it already works. And just to get military families to take it. So we've been able to teach it to military families in a third of the states in the country so far, my goal was all 50, but then my ultimate goal is all military bases around the world, which is like an astronomical numbers, hundreds of military bases. So you got to get commander approval, and you've got to get DOD approval. So it's a huge uphill battle that I'm going to keep fighting. And we just found that if we can get military families to take the training and learn the prevention steps and learn how to protect their kids and then what to do if something does happen, then we can just protect a lot more kids.
And because military families move so much, we found that that training carries with them. And if we can get other military families to also want to give the training, then that's how we get this training to all the bases around the world. But what I found is the biggest issue is that the military doesn't make the training mandatory. Of all the mandatory trainings that I had to take in the military and working as a Navy civilian, and my husband is a Marine, child sexual abuse prevention is not one of them. And that's my ultimate goal. Can we get that mandatory? Because it needs to be. I don't, I don't know how many people know this, but child sexual abuse is the number one reason that military members are in federal incarceration.
[00:39:45] Elizabeth Smart: Wow.
[00:39:46] Elizabeth Peace: And yet this training's not here.
[00:39:48] Elizabeth Smart: I had no idea. I had no idea that was why.
[00:39:52] Elizabeth Peace: Yep. That is the number one reason. Now are they are, you know, other military members in federal incarceration, are there also other reasons such as sexual assault and domestic violence? Absolutely. But the number one overall reason is child sexual abuse.
[00:40:06] Elizabeth Smart: Wow. And it's still not mandatory. That is shocking. How can, I mean, how can we help? How can the public help, how can the listeners help?
[00:40:15] Elizabeth Peace: So for me, in my opinion, because I have been trying to work with the DOD on this for many years. Is to try to get federal members of Congress to listen because anytime the bill comes forward, it ends up getting voted out.
In fact, it wasn't until this year that they were finally able to even pass some language on military commanders should not be deciding whether or not those found guilty of sexual assault against military members, so currently let me back up, I didn't explain that well. The way that it was and the way that several Senator Gillibrand is a great example.
She has been fighting for years to make it so that if a military member raped another military member, the local military commander should not decide whether or not that person gets punished. It should be a prosecutor and a judge and a jury that is outside of that military member's command because military commanders are trained into winning wars, not into protecting mostly women from sexual assault in the military.
And so when these military members were committing sexual assault, they were getting away with it, for years.
[00:41:30] Elizabeth Smart: I mean, these are crimes. Just because you're supposedly serving our country, I'm sorry, but I don't want like sexual predators defending my country.
[00:41:43] Elizabeth Peace: I mean, if we had, if we had an hour, I'd get you all the military sexual assault stats. I have them because I've given speeches on it. I have them and it's shocking, the amount of people getting away with committing sexual assault in the military. And because they are military, it means they fall under the federal system. Not state law. And so these commanders having absolutely no experience or training in this, we're letting them go. And they were getting away with it and they're still actually the vast majority of them are getting away with it. They might get a little bit of a reduction in pay, they might get their hands slapped. They might get moved to a different base to a different state, which just means, okay, well that was Virginia's problem now.
Exactly. So that is what we were seeing in the military and it's hard when it comes to Congress, because when you hear Senator Gillibrand, you think, well, okay, she's a Democrat and maybe, maybe you're not a Democrat, but this isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. And so you'd see a lot of Republicans voting it down because they felt like it would attack the military.
But actually all signs shows us it would strengthen military if people felt protected to serve in the military without being victims of rape.
[00:42:57] Elizabeth Smart: So, I mean, this shouldn't be turned into a political war. I mean, this is something that I think our country desperately needs and in drawing us together, not defining us more.
[00:43:07] Elizabeth Peace: Yes, this is not a political issue that has been turned into a political issue. So it wasn't even until this year that they were able to pass any language saying military commanders should not be allowed to let rapists go free in the military. So now what I need is for people to call their federal members of Congress and say, "but why doesn't the military make it mandatory that they have to take child sexual abuse, prevention, training? Why, if sexual assault was mandatory, prevent sexual assault prevention and domestic violence prevention, then why isn't the issue" that's actually the number one reason that they're in prison,"
But without either the Secretary of State mandating it or Congress mandating it, it's not mandatory.
[00:43:55] Elizabeth Smart: This should be an easy, easy decision to make. This should not be difficult,
[00:43:59] Elizabeth Peace: It should be easy.
[00:44:01] Elizabeth Smart: So everyone who's listening, call up your federal congress person.
[00:44:05] Elizabeth Peace: Every time I move, I tell the local military commanders I will come teach it for free. I will pay for the workbooks out of my own pocket. Just let me come teach it. And I have a really hard time getting them to let me come teach it because two hours of training a year or even every couple of years is a pretty hard ask, but it shouldn't be.
[00:44:25] Elizabeth Smart: That's really, that's really not that much. That's really nice. Two hours? I mean maybe cut out a workout for a day, have this instead.
[00:44:38] Elizabeth Peace: One two hour training to save children. It seemed like a no brainer to me. I remember when I was a journalist, I was interviewing this sexual assault nurse and she specialized, which I can't imagine she's, she's an angel for sure, she specializes in the nurse that is called when a child has been sexually assaulted. And she said to me one time, I just it's just so mind numbing, when you hear that somebody was sent to prison for 10 years for frauding the government or stealing money. And that's just money, you know, when you see what people are doing to children and they get six months of probation, those are children.
Those are peoples, are innocent people who are going to carry that trauma with them for the rest of their life, and now have to figure out now how do I turn this into something that I, you know, can I become an advocate? Can I heal? Can I move forward with my life? That is something that child now has to navigate for the rest of their life.
But, but if you launder money, that's 10 years and that's just money. So we have a lot, we have a lot of work to do, and a lot of it stems from our state and federal laws. And every state has its own challenges because laws are different state by state. I definitely, I am from the Utah/ Idaho area and I have run into a lot of struggles at a state level with states not wanting to investigate children sexually abusing children, which I think the last stat I saw was 40% of the time children are being sexually abused by older children.
And I think the reason that that number has increased in the last 10 years is because what I said what a half hour ago about children have access to electronics and smartphones and iPads and computers. So they're seeing hardcore pornography at very young ages and they are acting out what they're seeing.
And yet we can't get states to say, how do we stop this? And what do we do for the children who are the victims of it? And how do we help the children who are now forever changed? Because they have done something that they may not have even realized how wrong it was because they had just sexually abused in that the child, because that's what they saw on a smartphone.
I also, if this wasn't clear, I'm not a fan of iPhone for kids, so...
[00:47:09] Elizabeth Smart: No, I'm not a fan either. So...
[00:47:12] Elizabeth Peace: They're just, there's just, it's kind of like inviting all of these strangers into your home for dinner or bedtime or bath time every night, you know, where you really, as a parent, as much as you want to say, well, our electronics are in a main part of the house or, or whatever, or we charge our phones in the kitchen and all these, you know, things that we try to do to mitigate the real way to mitigate people having access to your kids is to get rid of that one-on-one ability that they have to be alone with your child and your child being on an iPhone is one-on-one with a stranger on the internet.
So we have a lot of work to do, but I really think that the biggest things we can do are to educate parents and to pass state and federal laws so that if something does happen, now we can actually do something about it. And currently we don't have that.
[00:48:05] Elizabeth Smart: Elizabeth, you have shared so much incredible information with us today. Thank you so much. Thank you for all of your work and all of your effort and the, I mean, the things that you've taken out of your own life and the pain that you've taken out of your own life, and you've done so much with it.
How can people support you? How can people support your efforts? Does Operation Innocence have a website? I mean, how can, how can people support and help to get involed?
[00:48:36] Elizabeth Peace: It does. If they go to operationinnocence.org, the coloring books are on there. I do send those out for free. If anybody wants to pay for shipping, that's great, but I do send coloring books and I do also remind parents the coloring book is not just something to hand to your child and be like, here's a coloring book. Look at this puppy. We, our mascot is Sergeant Bark, so it's the Sergeant Bark coloring book. But I tell parents it's a conversation starter for you to sit down and have a conversation with your child about these four things that you can teach your kids, which is the B stands for body boundaries. A is, you know, talking about ask a trusted adult for help, Run from a situation, and Know it's not your fault. That's what the BARK is for. So they can go to operationinnocence.org and they can get the coloring book or they can click on the trainings. The Darkness to Light training is linked on there.
I would highly recommend if they have not yet done this to please go take the Darkness to Light training D2L.org and take that training. You know, not a lot of great things came out of COVID. But one thing that did is it all the Darkness to Light trainings went virtual.
So you don't have to take them in person anymore. You can spend two hours at home after your kids go to bed and you can take it online now. And I want to recommend that everyone do that.
[00:49:54] Elizabeth Smart: Well, thank you so much. I'm definitely going to be going to Operation Innocence and I will pay for shipping for my kids' coloring book.
But thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for all you're doing. And as you move forward, please keep me in mind and in any ways that I can help, because I, I love, and I respect everything that you are trying to achieve and trying to do. And I just, I admire you and your work so much. So thank you.
Thank you so much for being on today. And I hope everyone who's been listening has felt like you've learned something today. You've felt validated in some way. I mean, whether it was from the very beginning of the conversation, just talking about how you wish that your teenage self could see and know what your potential was all the way to the end of our conversation, where it was talking about being a parent and protecting your kids and starting having these conversations young and making sure that we're going out and we're contacting our federal representatives in Congress and telling them that, you know, we want child prevention, sexual education being taught to our military members and making it a mandate as opposed to having it be an uphill battle the whole way on trying to provide education on that. So I
hope you feel like you've walked away with something. Please be sure to rate today's episode and share it with a friend if you feel like you got something out of it. And with that being said, I want to say thank you to everyone again for tuning in. Thank you to Elizabeth, and we'll catch you next time on Smart Talks.