SHOW NOTES
Visit Liza’s official website at www.lizapavlakos.com
Visit the website Liza mentions at 49:52, www.positivebreakthroughs.com, where you can access the coaching programs she mentioned.
See Liza’s upcoming book, Voiceless No More, here. (Note: currently this link leads to a picture of the cover. We will provide a link to preorder/buy Liza’s book once available.)
Follow Liza on Instagram and Facebook.
Chat 24/7 with support specialists at the National Sexual Assault Online Hotline
Leave Smart Talks a review on Apple Podcasts.
TRANSCRIPT
Elizabeth Smart: Hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of Smart Talks. Today I have an incredible woman, she's not only a survivor, but she's a mother of five. She is an entrepreneur of multiple businesses and she has her own organization, her own nonprofit organization that we'll be excited to hear about as well.
So please welcome Liza Pavlakos.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:01:08] Amazing. Thank you so much. Feeling very honored and blessed to be here on this platform. Thank you so much for having me.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:01:15] No, it's such a pleasure. So actually starting just right in, I would love to hear a little bit more about your nonprofit and what you do and what your mission is.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:01:25] So I've set up the Liza Pavlakos Foundation because I've been a keynote speaker for the past few years, and I thought that as I traveled to different countries, I'll be able to visit different slums, organizations, different places, that I felt that I could make a little bit of impact. And so what we do is we try to collect donations to buy laptops, you know, educational supplies, medical supplies for sick rooms, any little bit that I can do, because I feel that I am so blessed and privileged to be in a situation where I can, you know, share my story, inspire people. And so whatever way that I can contribute, the little way, that's what I tried to do through the Liza Pavlakos Foundation.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:02:10] Amazing. And how did you find your passion in this? How did you, why is this, why is having a foundation important?
Liza Pavlakos: [00:02:18] I think I started my passion in this so long ago, but I didn't really realize that this was my passion. I think the journey started when I was a kid actually. But, you know, I think I believe very much in the universe, the universe sends you different signs.
And so when I look back at my life from a young child, I was very passionate about empowering other people. I grew up in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, and we had a lot of nannies take care of us while my parents were, you know, busy at work and, you know, back home in Malaysia at that time, you know, the nannies weren't allowed to eat with us.
They had to eat in a separate corner of the house. They would have to eat after we ate. And I remember my mom would go to work. And as soon as my family went to work, I would take out the best Wedgwood plates, and the best, you know, table setting and set it up for all my nannies and say, now I'm about to serve you.
So I think from a young age, the intention was already there to serve others, but then, you know, sometimes in life you just get groomed along the way to be prepared for the work that you're meant to do. And so the foundation, you know, means a lot to me because it's my happy place. The happiest place for me is when I'm in the slums.
And I've been to the slums of Makoko, the slums in Mumbai, in Philippines, wherever, wherever I have traveled, I try and go visit the slabs or the orphanage, or, you know, the people that are in need. Single mothers, correctional centers, wherever I can. And I find those places to be my happiest places for my heart.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:04:04] And I imagine there's quite a difference between the slums of the Philippines or Mumbai as opposed to the slums of America.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:04:12] Yes. Yes, it's different, but same, same, ultimately. The slums in Makoko, you have feces all over the floor as you're walking, you know, in the, in the community. They really have nothing, but, you know, in America, when I visited America, like, you know, you've got so many homeless people in the streets, like with nowhere to go, right. At the end of the day, adversity is adversity.
Doesn't matter whether you're in Nigeria, whether you come from a very privileged background where you face adversity, or if you're in a slum, you know, on the streets and in America, adversity is adversity and we all suffer.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:04:55] I think you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. When people come up to me and they say, oh, I've been through something similar to you, but nothing in comparison.
I always have to save them. Well, first of all, we don't compare. And at the end of the day, pain is pain. And so I think you bring up the very valid point that adversity, whether you're in the slums of Mumbai or the slums of America, adversity is adversity.
And you have your own story. You have, you, you have had your own journey through life that was not always easy. Do you mind sharing with us a little bit about that?
Liza Pavlakos: [00:05:30] Happy to help. Happy to share with you my journey. My journey started a long time ago, came from a very privileged family back home in Malaysia. And I was obsessed with my mother. I'm absolutely obsessed with my father. I thought I had the most amazing life.
My mom was a famous TV celebrity chef. My father worked in the hospital as a, you know radiologist radiographer, and I just loved family so much, but unfortunately for me, family was the one thing that hurt me the most. And they hurt me the most, I guess, by not standing by me at all. When I was young, when I was about six years old whilst my mom was at work, my uncle would take care of me sometimes.
Yes, sure, we had the nannies, but the nannies were so preoccupied, you know, doing their thing, cooking, whatever. And they all trusted, you know, my uncle cause he was one of the favorite uncles in the family. Anyway, whilst my mom was at work, I would be hiding under my bed because I was so petrified of what was about to happen.
You know, my uncle would creep into the, into my room. He would find me from under the bed, he'll say, "come out, Liza, I'm going to be gentle. We're going to play." And so I was groomed into being his toy and his object for, you know, not just one moment or two moments, it was like a long period of time. And I was only just a child and I did not know how to articulate what was happening to me.
And, you know, his grooming would be hours. You know, the sexual torment was hours on end. So finally, when I was able to somehow articulate it to my mom, that, you know, my uncle was doing things to me as a kid she made sure she did the best that she could, that my uncle was never to be seen again in our home, but nobody talked to me about it either.
Nobody you know, gave me any kind of counseling and support that I needed. It was kind of brushed under the carpet and that was the norm for me. The reason why it was brushed under the carpet was because, you know, my mother had her own things going on in her life. My father was not being faithful in his marriage and, you know, coming from the community that we came from, Islamic community, Asian community that come in Malaysia, you know, face was everything.
And so my mom was in the media. And, you know, she had to make sure she always had this brave face. Yet in her mind, she wasn't well, you know, because she was a person that was being abused herself. Right. But at that time, I didn't understand that. Anyway, my mom and dad decided to migrate to Australia when I was 12 years old, because he would sacrifice his mistress and, and, and they would start a life in Melbourne, Australia.
And I was really excited because I knew that, you know, this was a new life. I wasn't going to be around my uncle and I could have my parents all to myself because, again, I was completely obsessed by my parents. You know, I adored them like there was no tomorrow. I remember writing letters to my mom, you know, just completely, always telling her how much I loved her.
And I used to have a fear at a young age. What if my mom died, what if my mom died, what would I do? What would I do? You know? And so I was happy to be in Australia with my mom and dad. But you know, by the time I was 14 years old, my mum found out that my father had brought his mistress at that time from Malaysia to Australia.
And she was completely heartbroken, decided to go back to Malaysia for a holiday. And I went with her and of course my favorite cousin from Malaysia this time was around, and she trusted him to take care of me one night, because I begged and pleaded, I was a teenager. I want to go out, you know, I want to spend time with my cousin and I'm going to be safe.
And of course that night I wasn't safe because my cousin raped me. And I don't know what happened to me exactly, but something shifted and changed in me. It was like the spark left, you know, and I became completely depressed. A few, about a week after the incident, we came back to Australia and on that flight, I found courage on that flight, I decided to write a letter to my cousin to actually say what you did to me was wrong. Even though I didn't actually know what rape was because I came from a completely sheltered background. And I didn't know that that was the meaning of it. Right. I just knew that it was wrong and painful in so many ways.
So I sent a letter to, to him and when he received it he showed it to the entire family back home. And then the family called my mom and dad. By the time we got the phone call it was very late in the night, one night. And usually when the phone rings at like one o'clock in the morning, you think someone's, someone's died, but I didn't realize that it was actually me that died that night because all I could hear was my parents apologizing for my behavior.
And then all of a sudden, my father, the person that I was completely obsessed with, drags me out of the bed and starts beating me, and my mom and dad are completely ashamed of me. Right. And I became a complete shame of the family, my cousins, I was so close to all my cousins, I completely adored all of them, but they all started this rumor that I had a mental disorder and that that I've made up this huge lot.
And so it was very hard. I didn't think I would cry, but I'm actually crying, so strange. Cause I actually don't cry on stage. Not at this part anyway. So and that was really difficult for me because I loved my parents so much. More than anything else in this world. But and I, and I knew that I had to leave my parents, but, and I had to run away, but the only way for me to run away was to kill myself. Because I couldn't bear actually leaving my parents, because I was so obsessed with them, right. I was the only daughter. I had two other, I had one brother at that time. And, and actually my mom had just given birth as well. So I had a younger brother as well, and I was obsessed with my little brother as well.
So I thought, okay, if I attempt suicide, this would be the best way. I tried three different, very graphic attempts of suicide and fortunately was not my time to die. And, and I'm so grateful for that. So finally, I realized I had to run away from home because there was no other way. The attempts that I tried were so graphic and I've got a novel coming out called Voiceless No More.
But running away from home was harder for me than probably taking my life because it meant that I would have to be away from my parents, the people that I loved. And you've got to understand, you know, by this time I was a 16 year old child in the streets of Melbourne on my own, you know, in this big, bad world.
I, because I had experienced abuse from a very young age and no one had sort of protected me at that time or told me I was okay. Or given me the support that I needed, I never understood healthy boundaries. Right. So there I was, a 16 year old child, you know, as a runaway with zero boundaries whatsoever.
No, my mom tried to bring me home and my father did as well. It's not like they completely abandoned me. But I was so angry and hurt because they had a relationship with my uncle and my cousin. And it didn't make sense to me to be anywhere near them. Right. Because being with my family meant being with my uncle and my cousin, and that was extremely triggering for me.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:13:54] Well, not to mention as well, I mean, to, to confront your cousin and then to, to be beaten for it. That is like, I think that's probably one of the more extreme cases of victim blaming I've heard of.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:14:12] Yeah. But you know, that, that was my world and that was all that I knew. So now, I had this journey out on the streets of Melbourne, but by the time I was just 17, I, I fell in love for the first time.
I, I got myself out of homelessness. I've moved in in a friend's house for about two weeks. And then after that moved out, sort of found my way. My, I was very entrepreneurial because my mom was quite entrepreneurial. So I, I started a food catering business where I would cook food, cause my mom was a pastry chef, and I would cook different curries and rice and I would sell it door to door.
And so I made a little bit of money. I found myself out of homelessness and got myself a little shared accommodation apartment with other people and enrolled myself into school because I had tenacity in me and I knew that school was really important for me. And I fell in love for the first time.
You know, I met a guy that was just, I thought he was just completely cute. And it was the first time I was falling in love and it was such a nice experience. And, but unfortunately this boyfriend of mine was, was cute and completely hot, but he also had a hot temper. And so whenever he was upset about something, it would be easy for him to just give me a slap or give me a hit or give me a kick. And, and I tried so hard to make it work with him because now I've lost my parents and I thought I have to make this work with him because he was my ticket to having my family accept me again, like I'm complete. He was Anglo Indian, you know, he was an engineering student and, you know, coming from an Asian background, if you marry someone who, you know, is of a good education, good standing, then it doesn't matter if they think that you've got a mental disorder or whatever, however, they discriminate you, all of a sudden, oh my God, you're an engineer's wife. Right. And so I tried so hard to make it work with him. And I was desperate to, but his violence was so bad that on my 18th birthday, he smashed me in my face so hard, I had to have my right hand side of my face reconstructed. So I have a metal plate holding my eye socket and cheekbone in place. And that's when I knew, when I was in hospital drinking out of a straw, that I had to leave him. So of course leaving him. I was a complete shame again, you know, and to everyone back home in Malaysia, we just, just a drama case, you know?
Elizabeth Smart: [00:17:16] So as long as you were dating him, you were okay in their eyes?
Liza Pavlakos: [00:17:21] Initially. Yes, initially. And then when I broke up with him and he was abusive with like you know, Liza is, you know, whatever, whatever labels people wanted to put on that's okay. Right. That's fine. So, broke up with him, found the courage to start my life again, continue with my catering business.
Continue with school, really focus hard. And I did, I focused completely, completely hard on what I needed to achieve. And life started to pick up again this time I'm like, you know, 19 years old, I'm at university. I'm happy. I've got my own apartment now that I can afford to pay because my business is okay.
And I'm working. Life is good. I wasn't rich, but life was okay. Right. And I was walking home from school one day and in the back of my mind, I always had money problems. Money worries, because, you know, I had rent to pay. I had school. I had bills, and I just couldn't keep up with expenses. And when I was walking home from school, there was a guy who, who was parked not far from my street. And he said to me, " you, you, are going to be the next model for the Nike campaign." I said, "me, no, no, not me." He said, "no, trust me. I work at Channel 10 studios" Channel 10 was not far from where I live. So it was a network studio and it kind of made sense what he was saying. And he had, he had folders and he would make his mobile ring and he'd be like, "yes, talking to the model now, like, yes, she'll be amazing for the campaign." He's like, "do you want to do it? You know, you could, you could go to Hawaii we'll pay you $10,000 for that job." And I mean, $10,000 was everything that I needed and more, and I thought you know what, maybe, maybe I just feel so ugly about myself because I had had my face, you know, broken recently. And maybe I just feel so down on myself, but maybe it's change. Maybe good things are meant for me. Maybe I should consider this, but I thought, no, I'll be really safe. And so I said to him, "look I have to ask my parents," even though I wasn't talking to my parents really, I, I, I didn't have a good relationship with them, so I didn't really care if they would agree or not agree.
But I said, "I'll have to ask my parents and I'll come back to you." And he said, "all right," he says, "why don't you jump into the car and write your name and number down. And I will call you later and let you know how it goes?" Now to anyone else listening to this, they'll say, well, who would jump into a car? Right? No, no person in their right mind would jump into the car, but to the person who has suffered abuse from the age of six and never had family backing, they aren't taught boundaries and safety. Right. And so your gut might trigger off alarm bells that this isn't right, but it doesn't mean that you actually, your brain actually knows what to do in that moment.
And, and so I got into the car naively, unfortunately, to write my details down. But unfortunately for me was one of the biggest mistakes I made in my life. Because as soon as I got to the car, the guy revved his engine so fast and started to drive off and locked his car. And I started screaming and crying and saying, excuse me, where are you taking me? Like you've got to, you know, get me out of this car because my gut knew that I was in the worst place that I could be. And he, he drives me off to a place that I didn't recognize. He takes advantage of me for many hours. He abuses me, he torments me, he breaks me down. I'm treated worse than an animal. And at the final hours, when I'm completely exhausted, he takes out a knife and I'm completely naked and he takes it around my chest to my stomach.
And he says to me, I'm going to give you the honor of saying your final rights. What are your final rights before I murder you? Okay. And to be honest, Elizabeth, like for me, there was no other option, but to look into the sky and to visualize the gates of heaven opening, and to say a prayer that I would go with the least pain possible.
And I can safely say that God saved my life that day because, because I was so calm in that moment I was able to buy a few seconds and then a few seconds of a few seconds. And then all of a sudden, I truly believe that there was a miracle that came through that started just repeating words to this man that I, I wasn't even myself and I started to negotiate my release.
Now some will say, well, we don't believe in miracles and some will say, it's the flight, fight or freeze mode where your brain takes over and it does what it needs to do at that time, whatever it is, I was saved that day, and to me, I have dedicated my life to serving God because when you meet death, you know that God is completely real, you know?
And for me, I'm happy to serve God, you know? And that's what I do. I might not be the most religious person, you know, I am a Muslim girl who speaks in churches, who, you know, kind of like a spiritual boho hippie, but, but that's okay because God knows my intention. I'm a Muslim girl that drinks alcohol. Right. But that's okay because, you know, to the Muslims out there that want to judge me for having a glass of champagne, well, you know, it's my relationship between me and God and only he knows my intentions. Right, right.
I was saved that day by sheer miracle because I was able to negotiate my release. When I did negotiate my release, he promised, he said he would let me go on the pretense that I would come back to the same place, a few hours, right, from that time. And that if I didn't come back, that he would come back and he would get me.
And so when he let me go and he dropped me off from where he picked me up, I remember running home and running so fast that I could not even feel my legs or my heartbeat. And I managed to get into my house. And when I got in, I said, this is like a movie. What did they do in movies? Oh right. Okay. They hit themselves and I started screaming and hitting myself and scratching myself. I was just screaming and screaming and screaming. And I thought, oh, I have to get into the shower. I have to scrub myself. I get into the shower, scrubbing myself, scrubbing myself, and then the phone rings and I can hear it ringing.
And by this time, I'm completely insane. And I get out of the shower and I pick up the phone and it's my girlfriend, Natalie. And she says, "Hey, Lisa, you know, I'll be going out tonight." And I said, "well, no, I can't because I have to go back and meet this guy. Cause he kidnapped me and he almost killed me, but I have to go back" because by this time I've literally gone loopy.
Right. And she called the police and, it was probably within, you know, a good 10 minutes. There was a knock on my door and I was so petrified to open the door, but I saw all the men and women like in suits. The police, Australian police force they came into my apartment, they set up a sting operation and they went back to the meeting point.
So it was a very dramatic scene that's in my novel, they caught the guy. And this, this case was heard in court. And I remember sitting at the, in the court and I thought, yep, this is in the bag because, you know, they found the knife, they found the gun, they found all the evidence that they needed to.
But at the court they said, "is it true that you run away from home?" "Yes." "And is it true that you attempted suicide?" "Yep." "And is it true that you were abused by uncle?" "Yes." "Is it true that you were raped by a cousin?" "Yes." "And is it true that you don't have money?" "Yes." And then they got some witness that I didn't even know to come and say that I was this man's lover for six years when I didn't even know this man.
And guess what? He completely got away with his crime.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:26:44] No.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:26:45] It was his story and my story, different versions. And it was completely corrupt because this man is extremely wealthy. Right. And there's a lawyer in Australia, that I can't even say his name because I will be in trouble, right, a new law. But he's completely, completely wealthy and was able to buy out the system.
And that was so gut wrenching for me, because you got to understand, right, so there's my family thinking I'm insane. Then there's my cousins thinking I'm insane. Then there's the Australian court system not standing by me. Right. It's like I had the world against me with completely no support whatsoever. And I remember looking back at your story and thinking, you know, if Elizabeth can get through this, so can I, right.
I used to think that, but I was so happy for you, Elizabeth, that you had your mom and that you had your dad and you had a community. And you had the support and you had the media and you had everyone stand by you. Do you know what I mean? And you can imagine how hard it is to be a product of complete abuse your whole life. And there is no justice whatsoever. It's been a hard battle, you know, but I worked very hard to get my life on track against all odds.
And when, just after the kidnap, because I was so low and I had no one and we had nothing, I'm so vulnerable, I went back to my boyfriend who broke my face because he was the only one that would want me. Right. And he got me pregnant against my will, and he left me as a single parent. And so now I was a single mom with, with my son and literally I had this newborn baby and no hope. Couldn't finish my school, couldn't get a job at McDonald's, couldn't do anything. I was so low. So low, at my lowest low, I even went to a brothel to look for work just so that I could feed myself.
But I said to myself, when I sold my first client, that I was much more than this, that I could find other ways. My father made me get back with the father of the child because coming from an Islamic background, you can't have a baby as a single parent. And so for a short time, I was forced to go back to him.
And in that short time, I was like an animal in a cage that was being tortured day in, day out, sexually, physically. I was being videoed for all the grotesque things that would take place. My baby would have to witness mum being raped in so many different ways. And it was so hard to escape again, but I did.
And the only place that I could escape to was to the drug scene. Because in the drug scene, there were other people that were on drugs and there were heavies and they were people that would hear about my story and then all of a sudden come to protect me as my armor. Right? So I got involved in the drug scene. There I was as a single parent and I thought if I continue in this drug scene, okay, now I'm not with this person, like the father of my child. I am away from my family. I'm away from everything, but I've got this baby, but I'm in the drug scene. If I continue being absorbed in this, even though the drugs would numb my pain and give me the ability to talk, right. I thought I will lose my child and I didn't want to lose my child.
And so I thought there has to be another way. And so I came up with a business idea as a single mom with zero startup, had no money, just a baby. And I went to this club and I said, "give me your venue and I will run an event and I will pay you after the event." They said, "what are you going to run?" And I thought, I came up with this idea called Miss India International Beauty Pageant, because I thought I mustn't be the only Asian girl who is disempowered, there must be other stories out there and I can bring us all together and I could, you know, run a big event. And so I did. I, I didn't have models so I went to this train station and I would sit there with my baby and look for, you know, any girl that I think you know was right. And I said, "excuse me, you know, I'm going to be running this Miss India beauty pageant. Would you like to be in this event?" And, and I was really going to make this event come, come true. And they agreed it wasn't long before I had, you know know, about 12 to 14 models and I had sponsorship to, to get the stage done and the sound engineering done. I launched my first Miss India International.
I probably would have expected maybe 1000 people there. I had 4,000 people attend my venues.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:32:55] Wow. That is amazing.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:32:58] And that was the first time I tasted power and money and I felt so good. And, and I was able to run my beauty pageants year after year. And I was very blessed because I was given an opportunity to take over a failing cafe with no cafe experience, but I loved food. I would cook away and cook away and this cafe became very successful. And then that's where I met my husband who came in, you know, as a customer. But I, I had known him, known of him, you know, when I was homeless. And we got into a relationship, we got married, we had five children.
I expanded his tailoring business. We had five stores around Melbourne. Beyonce was my client, Michael Buble, Jay-Z was my client, Australian open. I was having lunch with Beyonce, literally, in her room. Cause we were tailoring for her. I got to these heights that I never thought I could imagine. And, and it's like, I set this benchmark that I wanted to achieve something and I could achieve it.
Because I felt like if I could survive the kidnap, then I could, I could, I could achieve anything, but no matter how much I made financially, I was never happy. And one day a woman called Jill Mars in Australia was murdered. And I remember I was living in a beautiful beach house. When I walked out of the house, after I heard about her death and I walked to the beach and I said, Jill Mars, your death is not going to go in vain.
I promise you I'm going to do the work. I promise you. I will. And I, and I thought what's wrong with me? Why am I talking to the sea? Why am I so affected by this? Right? And it was difficult because I made the very painful decision to give up my stores that were generating a lot of income, the tailoring business.
To launch into keynote speaking. And I remember the first time I wrote an article on Facebook and I was like, this is what happened, A, B and C and D and E G the amount of comments and love and feedback that I got was the starting point. And I didn't plan to actually be a keynote speaker. I just knew that I was passionate about this thing, but I didn't know the industry at all.
And I was invited to one conference, then another conference and truth to be told the first few conferences I did, you know, some of the feedback that I got was "this is the worst talk I've ever heard" because I didn't, I didn't, I didn't know the industry and I didn't know that I didn't know the tools that I had to give people, you know, and I didn't know how to turn it back around and to uplift because it was such a sad story with so many different parts to it.
Do you know what I mean?
Elizabeth Smart: [00:36:00] Yeah.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:36:01] But last year, apparently I was, I was recognized as ninth female speaker in the world for 2020 apparently. And so, you know, I now am here talking to you and, I don't really cry as much as I've cried with you, but it's because I completely understand you, adore you. And I feel very blessed to speak to someone who understands what the depths of darkness really feels like.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:36:31] I mean, the pleasure has been all mine. I mean, when I first heard about you, I just heard the surface of, I mean, like the surface of the surface of what you experienced. So to sit here and listen to you share your story has been profoundly an honor for me. And I've been so amazed with how you kept coming back and something that's kind of been on my mind a lot lately that I'm curious to know, do you have thoughts on as well, because you have been so strong and you never gave up and you've had to make incredibly difficult decisions. I mean, decisions like leaving your family, which you said were harder than when you tried to commit suicide. That, I mean, if that doesn't give anyone perspective on how attached to your family, I don't know what possibly could. And so what I wonder is, do you think that you were born strong? Do you think that that was something that you always had deep down inside you, do you think that's something that everyone has deep down inside them? Do you think it's something that we nurture, that we grow as we go along as we experienced life? I'm just curious. What do you think about that?
Liza Pavlakos: [00:37:51] I think that we all have the power to be good, even when bad is dished out to us. And I think the more good that we are, the more kind, the more empathetic, the more loving, the more forgiving that we are, the more good can come back to us. You know?
I think jealousy is a huge curse. Like if I was to look at someone's life, you know, say I was looking at JLo's life, let's just say, hypothetically speaking. And I thought, oh my God, she's got it all. She's got money. Or even sitting next to Beyonce. Like I did. Not, not once did I ever feel any, any kind of jealousy, not once did I want anything that, that Beyonce had, you know, and I think that when we don't have those qualities in us when we don't have jealousy, when we actually are good, right. Then good breeds within us. And then there's just more light and light and the light somehow carries you towards your purpose. It sounds so crazy. Like I know it, it does, but I was there when I was about to get murdered and I felt the miracle of God.
Do you know what I mean? It's funny because if you really, really, really connect with the universe and you're good, you will feel like everything actually, you know, works in your favor. In 2017, I had a speaking engagement that was in Nigeria and I was very blessed because I was sponsored by Middle Eastern Airlines to go to Nigeria. We had a stopover. So I was with my Italian cameraman and I had my Australian, you know, assistant with me. They were my friends and we were going to go, you know, for this amazing speaking engagement, we had to stop over in the Middle East. And our driver turned out to be an ISIS human trafficker who was taking us to the desert.
Right? And we were very, very blessed to be intercepted by military intelligence and how that happened was sheer fate, sheer luck, sheer God. And I remember sitting in prison in the Middle East thinking, how are we going to get out of this, I've got five children, crying and crying and crying with intense PTSD feeling like my life is just a complete mess.
I keep attracting s*** all the time and drama and problems. And how do I explain to anyone? Cause they're just going to go, "oh my God, this is too much and too loopy." We were very blessed because military intelligence found the evidence of more, more than 350 people, apparently that was murdered. Right? And military intelligence also told me and my team, we were very lucky because God saved us.
And I remember I had a choice when I was released out of detainment. I had a choice to go back to Melbourne or to actually take the flight to Nigeria because people were waiting for me to speak. I decided to find the courage to go to Nigeria, even though I cried all the way through that flight, because I wanted to change, I wanted to finish the story and end it in a good way instead of just having this bad memory. And I, and I said to myself, what is the lesson the universe is teaching me with this, right? And I said to myself, well, maybe God is, or the universal, how we want to call it is saying, is saying, "you know what? Liza you're constantly talking about domestic violence and what it's like to be kidnapped, but now I want to open you up to the world of human trafficking. And by being in this process where you can actually be human trafficked and be detained and know what it's like and hear what is happening to the women in Middle East, who are being, or the people that are being human trafficked and killed, you can't talk about it.
And so, I don't know. I see life as lessons, lessons to get me closer to my purpose. And this purpose is to do my job, right? This little bit of impact that I can do. Now, I don't expire, I don't aspire to be the number one speaker or to be the number one YouTuber or to be recognized on Oprah or to be, maybe initially I wanted the world to know, but I've come to a point now after the human trafficking experience, I don't really care.
Because I will just do what I have to do and the universe will open its doors that are meant to open. And I will just do that little bit that I can do to create that impact.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:43:01] Your story is so, I mean, just the more you speak, the more I am just so amazed by you. Just so, I don't even have the words, humbled to listen to you.
You, you're so amazing, and articulate, and kind, and just as beautiful inside as you are outside. You're just incredible. And I think of all of the people who are listening to this, and a lot of them are survivors themselves. And I think given the last year, especially, and the pandemic and everything. If, tell me if I understand you correctly, but what you're saying is that as we go through these different experiences to look at them as lessons, like, what have I learned? And where is this taking now? Is that, is that right?
Liza Pavlakos: [00:43:53] That's how, that's how I view it. That's the only way I can process it. See, because so much hate has been put upon me in so many ways from so many perpetrators. But not only that, people around me that I have loved that have misunderstood me, friends that have walked away from me, best friends that I've had that have finally given up said, this is too hard.
Right? It's been hard journey when people judge you when they don't have a clue what it's like to walk in your shoes at all, right. And I think to myself, I can't change how people view the situation or view me. But I can change how I view the situation. I don't want to give into the hate. I don't want to give into the, to the animosity, into the darkness, I want to give into the light. And so the only way I can control that is by changing the narrative of, of what I've been through and seeing the positive in it.
I want to talk a little bit about PTSD. We've all gone through PTSD. It's, you know, COVID-19 pandemic has brought about PTSD. Any, any person listening today who has been through any kind of trauma on any level would have PTSD. Post-traumatic stress disorder is a very, very isolating, debilitating experience to have.
But what I believe is that we can also change the narrative of PTSD. And the way I changed the narrative of PTSD is P instead of "Post" to be "Purpose," find our purpose in life, find our mission. And they say, "well, how do I find my purpose? What is my purpose?" Well, your purpose is what brings you complete joy.
If you love painting, right, then that's your purpose. You were born to be a painter and to inspire people through your painting and to work with other people and train them in painting and touch their lives and spend time with them to painting. Purpose.
T instead of "traumatic" builds it, turn it into "trust," right? If, if, if you can learn to trust others around you, then, you know, you will have a better life. If you can learn to trust yourself, not put yourself down, learn to love yourself, you will have a better life.
"Stress" instead of having PTS for "stress" has it as "success." S for success. If you can see success in your trajectory, then you will have success. You know, we talk about manifestation, you know what you visualize you will have, well, if you can see success and you work towards the success then success will naturally come because everything, you know, it's not how talented you are, it's how persistent you are.
And D Instead of "disorder," change it to "discovery." When you step outside of your fear, just like I did, and instead of coming home from you know, Middle East and coming back to, to Melbourne, instead of taking that step into fearlessness and going to Nigeria to finish that talk, I discovered fearlessness. When you step outside of your fear you discover fearlessness
And so we have the power to change our story, to rewrite our story. My mother lives with me now in my house. We have had a very, a strange relationship on and off, but I love my mother. She is my soulmate. She is my breath. She is my best friend. She is my everything. And if I can't have space to forgive my mother for things that she did not know how to handle, how will I have space to love others if I cannot forgive my family at home, but how they belittled me, how they betrayed me, how can I forgive and love and teach love, you know, to others around the world? I, you know, people might look at me and say, well, Liza you just sound like you're just in lala land, whatever, but you know what? We all have a choice. We hold onto hate and anger, or we choose to forgive. I choose that.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:48:24] Well, whether or not people listen to this and think you're in lala land or not, for me, you've made a difference. This has probably been one of the most impactful podcasts for me, personally, that I've ever had the honor of being a part of.
Liza Pavlakos: [00:48:38] Thank you. Thank you.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:48:41] I just hope that everyone else listening feels as inspired and honestly uplifted as I do. I think there's no, there's no doubt in my mind why you, I mean, why you have been named, you know, best speaker and why you have achieved so much success and why you are just the way you are.
It's an absolute privilege to be speaking with you. Pleasure to listen to you. And you mentioned your com having a book coming out, and I'm sure that everyone else, whoever listens to this will want to know the details about it as much as I do, because now I'm like, okay, I've got to add that to like my Amazon pre-order list or, tell us, when does it come out and where can we find it?
Liza Pavlakos: [00:49:28] Okay. So it should be coming out in an April 2022. And it's called Voiceless No More. So it should be up in social media channels and everything like that coming close to it. So I'm really excited and it should be in Barnesand Nobles in America. And you know, I've chosen an American publishing company because I love America. So I'm, I'm excited about that. I also have an organization called Positive Breakthroughs with positivebreakthroughs.com. We, I have set up a platform in which survivors or anyone going through any kind of trauma, and not only that, anyone that wants any kind of life coaching executive coaching, we have a team of amazing professionals on there.
That's there to support because I always said to myself, no, I would go and I would do keynote speaking and people would say, "okay, now what you've opened up a can of worms than me and I need support. Where do I go?" Well, you know, you could go to Positive Breakthroughs and there's plenty of people that you could choose from. You know, we have a specialist in the LGBT community in the, you know, the Islamic community, you know, all sorts of different areas. We have it. So. Thank you so much.
Elizabeth Smart: [00:50:38] That is incredible. Thank you so much. And thank you for opening yourself up and for being vulnerable. It's it's been a pleasure and just everyone, I usually, I try to sum up our conversations or tell people to walk away with a few different pointers. At this point, I, I feel so much in me. I don't, I don't even know how to sum it up. Listen to it again, probably. That's how I'll sum it up. Everyone, if you've listened to this once, just click repeat, because it's definitely worth another listen, thank you to everyone for joining us to on today's episode and we will see you all next time. Thank you so much.